Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

Louisville where the situation is tense. Confirmation of apparently two Police Officers in louisville being shot tonight. There is going to be a press conference there very soon, so we may be going to that live. That might be whats coming up here, but it is another one of those nights, rachel, where were watching the protest developments in a situation that began with police use of deadly force on Breonna Taylor. Thats right. Just another one of those nights when it just feels like such a snapshot of everything all at once in america. Things just as dire as they could be in a lot of different fronts. Serious times. Thank you, rachel. Well, a curfew has been in place since 9 00 p. M. Tonight after kentuckys attorney general announced that a grand jury returned no criminal charges against two louisville Police Officers that shot and killed Breonna Taylor. They did return a charge of wanton endangerment against a third officer outside of Breonna Taylors Apartment Building when he fired ten shots that luckily hit no one. Cal perry is covering the situation for msnbc tonight and he will join us in a moment. What happened to Breonna Taylor during the police raid of her apartment that left her dead from a Police Bullet was enough to get one of the officers involved fired three months ago. It was enough to force the city of louisville to agree last week to pay a settlement of 12 million to Breonna Taylors family for what the city agrees was the wrongful death of Breonna Taylor, but it was not enough to bring criminal charges against the two officers who shot Breonna Taylor, according to kentuckys attorney general, Daniel Cameron who today revealed the findings of a grand jury that was guided in those findings by the attorney general. What happened when police fired their guns that night is what happens most of the time when police fire their guns in the line of duty. They missed their target. Most Police Bullets miss their targets most of the time. And sometimes thats a good thing. And sometimes thats a tragic thing. In this case, it was actually both. The police were aiming at whoever fired a gun at them when they burst through the apartment door in the middle of the night. Breonna taylors boyfriend says they didnt identify themselves as Police Officers and in the dark he grabbed his gun and fired. His bullet hit and wounded officer mattingly. When mattingly and cosgrove fired in the direction of that gunshot, they missed kenneth walker. They fired 22 bullets between them, between the two of them, and they missed their target. Every one of those bullets missed their target. But six of those bullets hit Breonna Taylor. One of the bullets fired by officer cosgrove is the bullet that killed her according to a report made public today. Everything about the police work i just described to you was judged to be wrong by the city of louisville and that is why the city settled the wrongful death lawsuit brought by Breonna Taylors family last week for 12 million. The city of louisville in that settlement also promised Police Reforms to Breonna Taylors family. That is a formal legal statement by the city of louisville, the killing of Breonna Taylor was wrong. But was it criminal . That was the question for the grand jury. We dont know what evidence was presented to the grand jury as of today. We only know that the grand jury did not find a crime in the killing of Breonna Taylor. But they did find criminal conduct at the scene by a third officer. The best description i have heard of what officer hankinson did is on the New York Times podcast which describes what he did after he ran out of the Apartment Building and was actually out in the parking lot outside of Breonna Taylors apartment. And he begins blindly firing through Breonna Taylors window and her patio door, both of which were covered with blinds so he had no way of seeing inside. The bullets from brett hankinsons gun we believe are the ones that ripped not just through her apartment but also through one of the apartments that was in the back where a young woman who was pregnant and her fiveyearold child were asleep in separate bedrooms. And he got fired for that. And those were the shots that when they missed their target that was a good thing, a very good thing because they didnt hit anyone. Ten Police Bullets fired into an Apartment Building where they could have killed a fiveyearold child. Ten Police Bullets that could have killed that childs pregnant mother. And those ten Police Bullets luckily missed everyone in that Apartment Building. Today a grand jury decided those ten Police Bullets were criminal. A grand jury charged him with the felony of wanton endangerment. Kentucky law says a person is guilty of wanton endanger when under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life, he engages in conduct which creates a substantial danger of death or serious physical injury to another person. And that according to the Kentucky Attorney general and the grand jury he impanelled is the only crime that was committed when 32 Police Bullets were fired after Louisville Police broke into Breonna Taylors apartment in the middle of the night. Leading off our discussion, chairman of the africanamerican studies department at princeton university. Hes author of the new book begin again. Marq claxton is with us, a former new York City Police detective and director of the black Law Enforcement alliance. And cal perry is joining us live from the streets of louisville, kentucky. Cal, what is the situation there now . Reporter the streets are mostly clear, lawrence. Ill tell you it was just about 30 minutes before curfew that we got word that two Police Officers had been shot. We dont know their conditions. It happened about a mile from here we know. There were protesters in the area, but we dont have details on what happened and we dont have their conditions. Once that happened and once word spread and this is a city that has been focussed on one story alone for 195 days, the streets really did clear. There was a little bit of violence before that, Water Bottles thrown at police, police using tear gas. All of this it seems as though the city was relatively well prepared for. There is a ring of steel in a ten block radius of dump trucks that prevented vehicles from coming in. It has not prevented some militias from showing force on the streets and it has not prevented those clashes and it has not prevented two officers from being shot. I want to tell you what Breonna Taylors family has been saying. They put out the following statement. They said that the grand jury decision was, quote, outrageous and offensive to her memory, a documented and clear coverup. And the death of an unarmed black woman who posed no threat and living her best life. And then her sister put on instagram, sister you were failed by a system that you worked hard for and i am so sorry. I love you so much. Breonna taylor was a front line Health Worker and the people here who have taken to the streets tonight, the majority of whom have done so peacefully, believe that the law has been written her in kentucky in a way that does not protect black people that did not protect Breonna Taylor. Three Police Officers were involved in that shooting and none of them, including detective hankinson was charged in actually shooting Breonna Taylor. That has this city, as you can tell, not only on edge but angry. The police behind me of course now are entrenched in their own positions. Two police were shot. As rachel said, we have the intersection of all of these stories. And louisville now is another one of those American Cities where we are going to have a conversation here about what kind of country we want to be going forward. Lawrence . Cal, thank you for that report. We will be coming back the you through the hour as the situation develops. I want to go to mark. With your experience as a new York City Police detective, Police Officer, i want you to give us your reading of the evidence in this case as we know it now. I think its pretty clear that based on the information that came out this afternoon during the press conference and also the ags statement that there was really a focus on the execution of the search warrant when there should have been, quite clearly, a focus on who was responsible for the execution of Breonna Taylor. The prosecutors have a wide range with which to conduct these type of grand jury investigations, and that is why many people have been saying for many years that this process should be opened up and made public. The devil is in the details. Right now we dont have information as to exactly how this case was presented to the grand jury, but we have the evidence that was presented. And now we have to rely solely on the perception in the opinions of the attorney general because there is a federal investigation right now that it would be compromising evidence to release specific detailed evidence. That grand jury decision didnt speak to the life of Breonna Taylor. It didnt speak to the humanity. He didnt even speak her name. What it did do is speak for the culture of toxic Police Culture, and it told toxic Police Culture to keep doing what you are doing because the system is working just as we hoped it word. Professor, your reflections on the developments today and what is happening in louisville tonight. Well, first of all, i would agree with what brother marq just laid out. And one of the ways in which we respond to what he just described in this particular instance is a kind of general distrust, distrust of a system that repeatedly, repeatedly denies justice to black folk who have offered at the hands of the police. Not only is there distrust of police and how they move about in their communities, but there is a distrust of the criminal Justice System as it repeatedly shows the second d, and that is a disregard for the life of black folk. Here we see very clearly in the grand jurys verdict visavis one Police Officer a complete disregard for Breonna Taylor, and it is that general disregard, lawrence, of black life that animates our relationship to the criminal Justice System, to policing in this country. In fact, that general disregard flows from, i believe, this value gap, this belief that white People Matter more than others. And that belief animates our practices, our social arrangements, our economic relations and so thats where we are, distrust and general disregard and that those are the ingredients for a powder keg in my view. Now we will go to louisville and pick up this press conference. At first on broadway shots rang out and two of our officers were shot both officers are currently undergoing treatment at university hospital. One is alert and stable. The other officer is undergoing surgery and stable. We do have one suspect in custody. Thats all the information i currently have. Ill take any questions briefly. So if i understand your question correctly, how concerned am i about the officers and citizens safety. I am very concerned about officers safety. Obviously we had two officers shot tonight and that is very serious. Its a dangerous condition. I think the safety of our officers and the community we serve is of upmost importance. [ inaudible question ] to my knowledge they are both nonlife threatening. Thats about as deep as i can go right now. Were not releasing the names of the officers at this time. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys. We appreciate it. Thank you, guys. And, so, we now know that the two officers shot tonight in louisville are in nonlife threatening condition at the moment. One officer is in surgery and stable, according to what we just heard. The other officer is in treatment and stable and there is one suspect in custody. Marx claxton, that is what we were hoping to hear. We would hope to hear they were injured even less seriously than that, but both stable. One in surgery, both nonlife threatening cases at this point and one suspect in custody. Right. And, lawrence, what we should also address is the danger associated with the failing Justice System. You see the risk, the increased risk and the danger. Its not just to the population. Yes, there is an increased danger as far as we can see to black and brown people. But a dysfunctional government response to injustice places Police Officers at additional risk as well. Thats why its imperative that we begin to have discussions and beyond discussions, Movement Towards correcting or perfecting this broken system because until we do that, of course, its black and brown people who bear the brunt of the danger thats out there. But residually Police Officers, our front line workers, our First Responders that we claim to care so much about are placed in highlevel danger as well. And we see that Police Officers are by far the most expensive Public Employees in america when you see judgments being agreed to of 12 million in a case like this. And, yet, cities continue to put officers out there with inadequate training. They continue to not take seriously what the full dimensions of what this problem includes. But there is also a fiscal dimension to this with strained budgets. Can you really afford to have 12 Million Police raids of apartments that turn up nothing and kills an innocent person . Absolutely. And particularly in a moment in which a Global Pandemic is creeking havoc on our communications. We still see cities and townships having to address this particular this particular reality. You know what, lawrence, it was made mention of this earlier on this network about the officer that was, in fact, charged, that what followed him from lexington when he was released was a report that he refused to be supervised, that he was, in fact, a problem officer. Yet he was hired in louisville. So part of what we have to do is address the underlying conditions, not only the toxic culture of policing in this country but the way in which we insulate the police from being held accountable and being held responsible. When you combine a refusal to hold the folk who have deadly force with general disregard of particular populations, were going to be in this situation over and over again where we will have to say the name of someone like Breonna Taylor again and again and again. And marq claxton, i want to go back to those two Police Officers shot tonight, nonlife threatening according to the Police Spokesperson we just heard from. Do members of the department recognize the point you just tried to make, which is the increased danger that these kinds of situations create for all members of the Police Department . I think generally speaking, no. And thats part of the problem. I think Police Officers are insulated and protected from the outside world. Part of Police Culture itself is to protect and insulate groups of Police Officers. Were different than they are. Whoever they are outside of policing. So the short answer is, no, they dont recognize and realize that the broken system that they think works to their benefit is actually placing them in increased harms way. Until we get to the point where that understanding is clear, these type of incidents will continue to occur. And then finally we have to realize that the most significant parts of any reform that i have seen are those that deal with exposing Police Officers to further punish them, getting rid of qualified immunity, for example. But those things that increase accountability for officers are the most substantive and significant portions of reform. And the things we really should be focussed on. Thank you very much for leading off our discussion tonight. Professor, please stay with us for more discussion later in the hour. At the end of the hour tonight, well go to reverend al sharpton. Up next, we will hear what joe biden and Police Officers<\/a> in louisville being shot tonight. There is going to be a press conference there very soon, so we may be going to that live. That might be whats coming up here, but it is another one of those nights, rachel, where were watching the protest developments in a situation that began with police use of deadly force on Breonna Taylor<\/a>. Thats right. Just another one of those nights when it just feels like such a snapshot of everything all at once in america. Things just as dire as they could be in a lot of different fronts. Serious times. Thank you, rachel. Well, a curfew has been in place since 9 00 p. M. Tonight after kentuckys attorney general announced that a grand jury returned no criminal charges against two louisville Police Officers<\/a> that shot and killed Breonna Taylor<\/a>. They did return a charge of wanton endangerment against a third officer outside of Breonna Taylors<\/a> Apartment Building<\/a> when he fired ten shots that luckily hit no one. Cal perry is covering the situation for msnbc tonight and he will join us in a moment. What happened to Breonna Taylor<\/a> during the police raid of her apartment that left her dead from a Police Bullet<\/a> was enough to get one of the officers involved fired three months ago. It was enough to force the city of louisville to agree last week to pay a settlement of 12 million to Breonna Taylors<\/a> family for what the city agrees was the wrongful death of Breonna Taylor<\/a>, but it was not enough to bring criminal charges against the two officers who shot Breonna Taylor<\/a>, according to kentuckys attorney general, Daniel Cameron<\/a> who today revealed the findings of a grand jury that was guided in those findings by the attorney general. What happened when police fired their guns that night is what happens most of the time when police fire their guns in the line of duty. They missed their target. Most Police Bullet<\/a>s miss their targets most of the time. And sometimes thats a good thing. And sometimes thats a tragic thing. In this case, it was actually both. The police were aiming at whoever fired a gun at them when they burst through the apartment door in the middle of the night. Breonna taylors boyfriend says they didnt identify themselves as Police Officers<\/a> and in the dark he grabbed his gun and fired. His bullet hit and wounded officer mattingly. When mattingly and cosgrove fired in the direction of that gunshot, they missed kenneth walker. They fired 22 bullets between them, between the two of them, and they missed their target. Every one of those bullets missed their target. But six of those bullets hit Breonna Taylor<\/a>. One of the bullets fired by officer cosgrove is the bullet that killed her according to a report made public today. Everything about the police work i just described to you was judged to be wrong by the city of louisville and that is why the city settled the wrongful death lawsuit brought by Breonna Taylors<\/a> family last week for 12 million. The city of louisville in that settlement also promised Police Reforms<\/a> to Breonna Taylors<\/a> family. That is a formal legal statement by the city of louisville, the killing of Breonna Taylor<\/a> was wrong. But was it criminal . That was the question for the grand jury. We dont know what evidence was presented to the grand jury as of today. We only know that the grand jury did not find a crime in the killing of Breonna Taylor<\/a>. But they did find criminal conduct at the scene by a third officer. The best description i have heard of what officer hankinson did is on the New York Times<\/a> podcast which describes what he did after he ran out of the Apartment Building<\/a> and was actually out in the parking lot outside of Breonna Taylors<\/a> apartment. And he begins blindly firing through Breonna Taylors<\/a> window and her patio door, both of which were covered with blinds so he had no way of seeing inside. The bullets from brett hankinsons gun we believe are the ones that ripped not just through her apartment but also through one of the apartments that was in the back where a young woman who was pregnant and her fiveyearold child were asleep in separate bedrooms. And he got fired for that. And those were the shots that when they missed their target that was a good thing, a very good thing because they didnt hit anyone. Ten Police Bullet<\/a>s fired into an Apartment Building<\/a> where they could have killed a fiveyearold child. Ten Police Bullet<\/a>s that could have killed that childs pregnant mother. And those ten Police Bullet<\/a>s luckily missed everyone in that Apartment Building<\/a>. Today a grand jury decided those ten Police Bullet<\/a>s were criminal. A grand jury charged him with the felony of wanton endangerment. Kentucky law says a person is guilty of wanton endanger when under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life, he engages in conduct which creates a substantial danger of death or serious physical injury to another person. And that according to the Kentucky Attorney<\/a> general and the grand jury he impanelled is the only crime that was committed when 32 Police Bullet<\/a>s were fired after Louisville Police<\/a> broke into Breonna Taylors<\/a> apartment in the middle of the night. Leading off our discussion, chairman of the africanamerican studies department at princeton university. Hes author of the new book begin again. Marq claxton is with us, a former new York City Police<\/a> detective and director of the black Law Enforcement<\/a> alliance. And cal perry is joining us live from the streets of louisville, kentucky. Cal, what is the situation there now . Reporter the streets are mostly clear, lawrence. Ill tell you it was just about 30 minutes before curfew that we got word that two Police Officers<\/a> had been shot. We dont know their conditions. It happened about a mile from here we know. There were protesters in the area, but we dont have details on what happened and we dont have their conditions. Once that happened and once word spread and this is a city that has been focussed on one story alone for 195 days, the streets really did clear. There was a little bit of violence before that, Water Bottles<\/a> thrown at police, police using tear gas. All of this it seems as though the city was relatively well prepared for. There is a ring of steel in a ten block radius of dump trucks that prevented vehicles from coming in. It has not prevented some militias from showing force on the streets and it has not prevented those clashes and it has not prevented two officers from being shot. I want to tell you what Breonna Taylors<\/a> family has been saying. They put out the following statement. They said that the grand jury decision was, quote, outrageous and offensive to her memory, a documented and clear coverup. And the death of an unarmed black woman who posed no threat and living her best life. And then her sister put on instagram, sister you were failed by a system that you worked hard for and i am so sorry. I love you so much. Breonna taylor was a front line Health Worker<\/a> and the people here who have taken to the streets tonight, the majority of whom have done so peacefully, believe that the law has been written her in kentucky in a way that does not protect black people that did not protect Breonna Taylor<\/a>. Three Police Officers<\/a> were involved in that shooting and none of them, including detective hankinson was charged in actually shooting Breonna Taylor<\/a>. That has this city, as you can tell, not only on edge but angry. The police behind me of course now are entrenched in their own positions. Two police were shot. As rachel said, we have the intersection of all of these stories. And louisville now is another one of those American Cities<\/a> where we are going to have a conversation here about what kind of country we want to be going forward. Lawrence . Cal, thank you for that report. We will be coming back the you through the hour as the situation develops. I want to go to mark. With your experience as a new York City Police<\/a> detective, Police Officer<\/a>, i want you to give us your reading of the evidence in this case as we know it now. I think its pretty clear that based on the information that came out this afternoon during the press conference and also the ags statement that there was really a focus on the execution of the search warrant when there should have been, quite clearly, a focus on who was responsible for the execution of Breonna Taylor<\/a>. The prosecutors have a wide range with which to conduct these type of grand jury investigations, and that is why many people have been saying for many years that this process should be opened up and made public. The devil is in the details. Right now we dont have information as to exactly how this case was presented to the grand jury, but we have the evidence that was presented. And now we have to rely solely on the perception in the opinions of the attorney general because there is a federal investigation right now that it would be compromising evidence to release specific detailed evidence. That grand jury decision didnt speak to the life of Breonna Taylor<\/a>. It didnt speak to the humanity. He didnt even speak her name. What it did do is speak for the culture of toxic Police Culture<\/a>, and it told toxic Police Culture<\/a> to keep doing what you are doing because the system is working just as we hoped it word. Professor, your reflections on the developments today and what is happening in louisville tonight. Well, first of all, i would agree with what brother marq just laid out. And one of the ways in which we respond to what he just described in this particular instance is a kind of general distrust, distrust of a system that repeatedly, repeatedly denies justice to black folk who have offered at the hands of the police. Not only is there distrust of police and how they move about in their communities, but there is a distrust of the criminal Justice System<\/a> as it repeatedly shows the second d, and that is a disregard for the life of black folk. Here we see very clearly in the grand jurys verdict visavis one Police Officer<\/a> a complete disregard for Breonna Taylor<\/a>, and it is that general disregard, lawrence, of black life that animates our relationship to the criminal Justice System<\/a>, to policing in this country. In fact, that general disregard flows from, i believe, this value gap, this belief that white People Matter<\/a> more than others. And that belief animates our practices, our social arrangements, our economic relations and so thats where we are, distrust and general disregard and that those are the ingredients for a powder keg in my view. Now we will go to louisville and pick up this press conference. At first on broadway shots rang out and two of our officers were shot both officers are currently undergoing treatment at university hospital. One is alert and stable. The other officer is undergoing surgery and stable. We do have one suspect in custody. Thats all the information i currently have. Ill take any questions briefly. So if i understand your question correctly, how concerned am i about the officers and citizens safety. I am very concerned about officers safety. Obviously we had two officers shot tonight and that is very serious. Its a dangerous condition. I think the safety of our officers and the community we serve is of upmost importance. [ inaudible question ] to my knowledge they are both nonlife threatening. Thats about as deep as i can go right now. Were not releasing the names of the officers at this time. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys. We appreciate it. Thank you, guys. And, so, we now know that the two officers shot tonight in louisville are in nonlife threatening condition at the moment. One officer is in surgery and stable, according to what we just heard. The other officer is in treatment and stable and there is one suspect in custody. Marx claxton, that is what we were hoping to hear. We would hope to hear they were injured even less seriously than that, but both stable. One in surgery, both nonlife threatening cases at this point and one suspect in custody. Right. And, lawrence, what we should also address is the danger associated with the failing Justice System<\/a>. You see the risk, the increased risk and the danger. Its not just to the population. Yes, there is an increased danger as far as we can see to black and brown people. But a dysfunctional government response to injustice places Police Officers<\/a> at additional risk as well. Thats why its imperative that we begin to have discussions and beyond discussions, Movement Towards<\/a> correcting or perfecting this broken system because until we do that, of course, its black and brown people who bear the brunt of the danger thats out there. But residually Police Officers<\/a>, our front line workers, our First Responders<\/a> that we claim to care so much about are placed in highlevel danger as well. And we see that Police Officers<\/a> are by far the most expensive Public Employees<\/a> in america when you see judgments being agreed to of 12 million in a case like this. And, yet, cities continue to put officers out there with inadequate training. They continue to not take seriously what the full dimensions of what this problem includes. But there is also a fiscal dimension to this with strained budgets. Can you really afford to have 12 Million Police<\/a> raids of apartments that turn up nothing and kills an innocent person . Absolutely. And particularly in a moment in which a Global Pandemic<\/a> is creeking havoc on our communications. We still see cities and townships having to address this particular this particular reality. You know what, lawrence, it was made mention of this earlier on this network about the officer that was, in fact, charged, that what followed him from lexington when he was released was a report that he refused to be supervised, that he was, in fact, a problem officer. Yet he was hired in louisville. So part of what we have to do is address the underlying conditions, not only the toxic culture of policing in this country but the way in which we insulate the police from being held accountable and being held responsible. When you combine a refusal to hold the folk who have deadly force with general disregard of particular populations, were going to be in this situation over and over again where we will have to say the name of someone like Breonna Taylor<\/a> again and again and again. And marq claxton, i want to go back to those two Police Officers<\/a> shot tonight, nonlife threatening according to the Police Spokesperson<\/a> we just heard from. Do members of the department recognize the point you just tried to make, which is the increased danger that these kinds of situations create for all members of the Police Department<\/a> . I think generally speaking, no. And thats part of the problem. I think Police Officers<\/a> are insulated and protected from the outside world. Part of Police Culture<\/a> itself is to protect and insulate groups of Police Officers<\/a>. Were different than they are. Whoever they are outside of policing. So the short answer is, no, they dont recognize and realize that the broken system that they think works to their benefit is actually placing them in increased harms way. Until we get to the point where that understanding is clear, these type of incidents will continue to occur. And then finally we have to realize that the most significant parts of any reform that i have seen are those that deal with exposing Police Officers<\/a> to further punish them, getting rid of qualified immunity, for example. But those things that increase accountability for officers are the most substantive and significant portions of reform. And the things we really should be focussed on. Thank you very much for leading off our discussion tonight. Professor, please stay with us for more discussion later in the hour. At the end of the hour tonight, well go to reverend al sharpton. Up next, we will hear what joe biden and Kamala Harris<\/a> have to say about Breonna Taylor<\/a> today. The chief of staff to Kamala Harris<\/a> will join us next. To kaa harris will join us next im a verizon engineer. And im part of the team building. A powerful 5g experience for america. Its 5g ultra wideband, and its already available in parts of select cities. Like los angeles. And in new york city. And its rolling out in cities around the country. With massive capacity. Its like an eightlane highway compared to a twolane dirt road. 25x faster than todays 4g networks. In fact, its the fastest 5g in the world. From the network more people rely on. This is 5g built right. Only on verizon. I hope my insurance pays for it. Can you tell me how much this will be . [cashier] 67. Sorry. Wait, have you heard about goodrx . Goodrx finds free coupons to help you save up to 80 on your prescriptions. Wow, i had no idea. [announcer] goodrx, stop paying too much for your prescriptions. Xfinity is your home for the return of live sports. Tonight joe biden said this about Breonna Taylor<\/a>. A federal investigation remains ongoing, but we do not need to wait for the final judgment of that investigation to do more to deliver justice for her. We know what is necessary. We need to start by addressing the use of Excessive Force<\/a>, banning choke holds and overhauling no knock warrants. Earlier today joe biden said this. My heart goes out to her mother. Do not sully her memory or her mothers by engaging in any violence. It is totally inappropriate for that to happen. She wouldnt want it, nor would her mother. So i hope they do that calmly. Kamala harris said this about Breonna Taylor<\/a> as she walked into a closed door Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee meeting. There is no question that Breonna Taylor<\/a> and her family deserved justice yesterday, today and tomorrow. And yesterday in detroit, Kamala Harris<\/a> said this. When we look at this election, there are some very clear differences. Donald trump will never use the term black lives matter. It is outdated. It is wrong headed thinking to think that the only way you are going to get communities to be safe is to put more Police Officers<\/a> on the street. What we have to do, and what we will do is reimagine Public Safety<\/a> and the way that you understand, you want a safe community, you have to invest in the health and wellbeing of that community. Joining us now is the chief of staff to Vice President<\/a> ial candidate senator Kamala Harris<\/a>. I just want to clarify, you are that campaign chief of staff, not the senate chief of staff. Going to keep those roles clear. Yes, you have to have clarity. Your reaction to what senator harris is thinking tonight about this case. As a former prosecutor herself, she has by now i assume gathered a grasp of some of the evidence in it. Yeah. First let me say, lawrence, that we have to continue to support Breonna Taylors<\/a> mom. We have to certainly continue to say Breonna Taylors<\/a> name. And heres the thing. Yes, we have to ask for justice, but we also need change. We need to change the system. A system that continually kills black boys, black girls, black men, black women who are being murdered and no accountability for their murders is happening at all. So thats something that we have to continue to do, is ask for change. And you saw that in joe bidens statement saying what is it what does Police Reform<\/a> look like . What does reimaging Police Reform<\/a> . And that is banning choke holds, really addressing Excessive Force<\/a> and, you know, talking about no knock warrants in a way that we can change that. And, so, that is we have to meet the moment that were in. And what Kamala Harris<\/a> was laying out was the contrast, the contrast between joe biden, Kamala Harris<\/a> and donald trump. Look, lawrence, when the sun rises tomorrow, we will be 40 days away from this election. And i know this sounds cliche and i know people may think it is hyperbole, but this is truly the most consequential election of our lifetime really in generations because, yes, we are in this pandemic of health care and this economic crisis, but also as we were just starting, as you started your show, this Civil Rights Movement<\/a> really in this moment, the largest civil rights moment in generations. And you see a president that just continues to divide us and just divides us with hate. So that is what is at stake. Everything is at stake on this election. So, yes, we have to continue to ask for justice, but we also have to have change. And that is something joe biden has been talking about from the beginning of this uprising that we are seeing in the street that has been mostly peaceful because we need to hear that message, which is we have to uproot systemic racism. That is incredibly key in trying to change what is happening. And, so, you have to start doing that. And thats what joe biden and Kamala Harris<\/a> is putting forth. I want to listen to what senator harris said yesterday in detroit to the question of what keeps you up at night. Lets listen to this. What keeps you up at night . I want to make sure everybody votes. And that they vote early, whoever you vote for. It is your constitutional right. It is the right of citizenship. It is about an expression of our voices and it is about upholding one of the most important structures of our democracy, which is free and open elections where we have a peaceful transfer of power in our government. As you know, washington is a buzz today with the reporting in the atlantic about the army of Republican Trump<\/a> lawyers who are going to dissend on the battleground states before election day, during election day and after election day to try to suppress the vote, especially the mailin vote for joe biden and Kamala Harris<\/a>. Do you and the Biden Harris Campaign<\/a> have an army of lawyers that big thats going to show up to fight this fight . Yeah. Were in the middle of a pandemic, as you know. So covid19 is changing this whole process as well. And then we have Voter Suppression<\/a> on top of that, which has existed for some time, as you know, lawrence. I know you have talked about it on your show. And, yes, we are going to be prepared. We are making sure that were educating our voters, making sure that were supporting local localities who are dealing with the different type of, you know, obstacles that donald trump has put in front of voters. And that is key here, and its clear that we have to continue to educate our voters, making sure they know that their rights to vote and how to make sure that their vote is counted for. As i mentioned, 40 days left. So there is so much to do and so one of the things that we tell voters all the time is make sure that you have a plan because there are so many different rules out there, things have changed because of covid19. Go to iwillvote. Com and make sure you know exactly, exactly how you can vote in your state and thats the job that we have to do as a campaign, is continuing to educate our voters. And, yes, we will have an army. We will make sure that votes are counted, peoples votes are protected because thats what a democracy looks like. And what i was saying earlier, so much is on the line. Our democracy is on the line in this election because of what were seeing, what donald trump has been doing and how hes just been debasing the office that he holds. So thats what we have to continue to focus on, continue doing the contrast, continuing to educate and getting our message out there and earning every vote. The campaign chief of staff for Vice President<\/a> ial candidate Kamala Harris<\/a>. Thank you very much for joining us tonight and please come back as the campaign continues. I will. Thank you. Thank you. And when we come back, a new National Poll<\/a> out tonight shows joe biden with a double digit lead. That poll comes on the day, as i just mentioned, where the atlantics lead story describes a nightmare scenario that donald trump and his army of lawyers can create if the election is close enough. Thats next. People everywhere living with type 2 diabetes are waking up to whats possible with rybelsus\u00ae. You are my sunshine, my only sunshine. Rybelsus\u00ae works differently than any other diabetes pill to lower blood sugar in all 3 of these ways. Increases insulin. Decreases sugar. And slows food. The majority of people taking rybelsus\u00ae lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7. People taking rybelsus\u00ae lost up to 8 pounds. Rybelsus\u00ae isnt for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. 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The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base so you can start hiring right away. Claim your seventyfivedollar credit when you post your first job at indeed. Com promo the latest National Poll<\/a> shows joe biden with a ten point lead over donald trump. That is outside the polls margin of error. That poll is unchanged from quinnipiacs poll released on september 2nd. A ten point win by either candidate would be a landslide by todays standard. According to a cover story, joe biden might need a landslide to win the Electoral College<\/a>. In an article titled the election that could break america, he describes all the ways that Donald Trumps<\/a> army of lawyers and republican supporters and state governments around the country might try to throw the election to donald trump no matter what the voters say. If joe biden is leading donald trump in the key battleground states when the first Election Results<\/a> are reported on election night, then when the mailin ballots are counted joe bidens winning margin will probably significantly increase because polls show that more democrats plan to vote by mail than republicans. But if donald trump is ahead in the early vote counts on election night, there are republican lawyers poised to try to stop some key states from counting their mailin ballots because Trump Lawyers<\/a> are convinced they will heavily favor joe biden. The Trump Lawyers<\/a> plan is to fill the battleground states with legal challenges to stop counting votes. And if those challenges drag on for over a month and the deadline is looming for states to report their results to the Electoral College<\/a> in a nightmare scenario, some states might ignore the results of the election and send electors to the Electoral College<\/a> who will vote for donald trump. Heres Barton Gellman<\/a> describing that scenario to chris hayes tonight. Its in the constitution. Yes. That eight legislators can appoint electors for president in any manner they choose. And the Supreme Court<\/a> ruled in bush v gore in 2000 that state electors state legislators can take back that power from the people any time they want. So were accustomed to voting by popular vote for who is going to represent our state in state electors, but the constitution doesnt guarantee that. And the idea that some trump people are discussing, not saying they have a plan to do it, but i know that it is coming up and they have discussed it also with the Republican Party<\/a> in pennsylvania, a crucial swing state, is that they would ask republican legislators who control pennsylvania to name trump friendly electors notwithstanding the popular vote, regardless of the popular vote. It will be a claim that the counties had finished or it was corrupt or that it was rigged or that there are still legal disputes and so just appoint some trump people. How are the democrats going to fight that . Do they have an army of lawyers ready to go . Well ask congressman Eric Swalwell<\/a> when he joins us to describe how the democrats will fight those legal challenges. Thats next. Smooth driving pays off with allstate the safer you drive the more you save youve never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today allstate over time, you go noseblind to the odors in your home. background music but others smell this. upbeat music thats why febreze plug has two alternating scents and eliminate odors for 1200 hours. Breathe happy febreze. La la la la la. Skip to cold relief fast. Alkaseltzer plus power max gels. With 25 more concentrated power. Oh, what a relief it is so fast for two days in a row now donald trump has said publically that he wants the woman who he will nominate as a Supreme Court<\/a> justice to be on the court in time to rule on the legal challenges that donald trump plans to bring over an election he clearly expects to lose in the voting booth and then win in the Supreme Court<\/a>. If donald trump is saying these things publically, just imagine what hes actually saying in his meetings, private meetings, with the women he will announce on saturday as his choice for the Supreme Court<\/a>. Here is the way donald trump said it today, which is almost word for word what he said yesterday. This scam that the democrats are pulling, its a scam, the scam will be before the United States<\/a> Supreme Court<\/a> and i think having a 44 situation is not a good situation. If you get that, i dont know that you get that. I think it should be 80 or 90, but just in case it would be more political than it should be, i think its very important to have a ninth justice. Joining our discussion now is democratic congressman Eric Swalwell<\/a> of california. Hes a member of the house intelligence committee. And professor is back with us. Congressman swalwell, do the democrats have an army of lawyers ready to go as the republicans have with the intention of bringing to Donald Trumps<\/a> Supreme Court<\/a> a challenge to an election that they expect joe biden to win . Yes, but not only an army of lawyers who beneath the surface are working to ensure access to the ballot box, but we have an army of voters, the march for our lives generation that came out of parkland, the people who won in virginia in the off year, who won in kentucky. We have an army of voters. So the best way out is to overwhelm the ballot box because donald trump is a coward and he will vanish if the result is so overwhelming. If hes going to play games and encourage people not to send electors, well, the house of representatives then would determine who the president is. As long as we win in the house, we can only counter Donald Trumps<\/a> corruption. Lawrence, this is what a democracy looks like when you have a president who will go to jail and Face Criminal Charges<\/a> if hes not reelected. Hes going to test us and he will not let ourselves be paralyzed by fear to register to vote and then have agency and make sure we hold our leaders accountable after the election. He calls mailin voting, which is the way donald trump himself votes, he calls that a scam, pretends it was created by democrats. Its been with us forever and of course its going to be used extra heavily this year because of a pandemic where people dont want to go up and go to the polls. He says this scam will be before the United States<\/a> Supreme Court<\/a> and thats the president of the United States<\/a> saying i will litigate this to the United States<\/a> Supreme Court<\/a> in order to block the counting of mailin ballots, and i want the woman im talking to right now, whoever she is, to be on the Supreme Court<\/a>. Wouldnt he, when hes talking to that woman, be telling her exactly this, this is what i want from you on the Supreme Court<\/a> . Well, i think so. I mean, hes doing it again. Hes speaking the silent parts outloud. What we do know is this, lawrence, that donald trump is capable of anything. We know this. We know that hes going to cheat. Its clear, right . And we know what the Republican Party<\/a> is capable of. We saw what they did at North Carolina<\/a> when they lost. We saw what they did in wisconsin when they lost. What we need to understand is that november is not going to settle anything, right . In fact, were going to experience perhaps one of the most fundamental challenges that the republicans ever faced. And i think the representative was right on point that it will be in our hands. It is not just these power hungry people, but we have to assert this is a government of the people, by the people, for the people. But we need to understand that donald trump is capable of doing anything. And what he has proven to us is that hes thinking about doing specific things as well. So we need to be prepared. And congressman, one of the things that emerges in the reporting is that if the democrats win the senate, the trump plan will be frustrated. It makes it much more likely that the election cannot be denied to joe biden if he wins the most votes in the Electoral College<\/a> states. And, lawrence, we have good reason to believe that were going to win the senate, not just arizona, colorado, maine, the three where were ahead in the polls and ahead in the online fundraising, but were seeing in alaska. Dr. Al gross, commercial fisherman running as an independent is tied 4343 with the freshman incumbent dan sullivan. Speaking of the senate, lawrence, i just want to say mitt romney expressed outrage about what President Trump<\/a> said this evening. While Many Americans<\/a> may feel helpless right now about what the president is doing, mitt romney could actually leverage his vote respectfully and say, mr. President , im not going to give you a Supreme Court<\/a> nominee vote before the election if you are going to do this, if you cant promise to peacefully transition power in our country. So its really incumbent on mitt romney and others to recognize they have power and leverage over the president. Its such a good point because there is the president publically trying to corrupt the Supreme Court<\/a> justice who he wants to nominate by saying i need the ninth one who im going to name to rule for me. Right. Hes speaking again the silent part out loud. And our expectation, to be honest with you, that these folks who have enabled him might be outsized. We know that donald trump is not singular. He has been enabled by a wide range of folk, particularly those republicans in the senate. It would be wonderful if mitt romney would be consistent in this moment. I wouldnt hold my breath, though, lawrence. I wouldnt hold my breath. Thank you both for joining our discussion tonight. Thank you, both. Thank you. And up next, tonight as we follow the situation in louisville where a grand jury returned no criminal charges today against the Police Officers<\/a> who shot and killed Breonna Taylor<\/a>, al sharpton will get tonights last word. Thats next. [narrator] this is kate. Hey. [narrator] she takes two prescriptions. Kates son jack, takes one too. Kate works hard, and thought she had good insurance. But she still pays too much. Thats no good. So kate downloaded the goodrx app. Now she can compare prescription prices, to find the best discounts. She even beats her insurance price. Good for you kate, good for you. Goodrx, stop paying too much for your prescriptions. Download the free app today. Im a verizon engineer. And im part of the team building. A powerful 5g experience for america. Its 5g ultra wideband, and its already available in parts of select cities. Like los angeles. And in new york city. And its rolling out in cities around the country. With massive capacity. Its like an eightlane highway compared to a twolane dirt road. 25x faster than todays 4g networks. In fact, its the fastest 5g in the world. From the network more people rely on. This is 5g built right. Only on verizon. Beautiful. But when i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. But now i practice a different philosophy. Quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. And now im back on top. With koala kai. Hey more mercy. Save over 30 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. The easy way to a happier business. Xfinity is your home for the return of live sports. Here is kentuckys attorney general today. According to kentucky law, the use of force by mattingly and cosgrove was justified to protect themselves. That bars us from pursuing criminal charges in ms. Breonna taylors death. Just disis not always easy or always fit the mold of public opinion. And it does not conform to shifting standards. Joining us now is reverend sharpton. He is author of the new book rise up which will be available tuesday. Your reaction to what the attorney general had to say and what has unfolded tonight in louisville. Well, my reaction is that certainly it is not surprising but still alarming to see that a grand jury grand juries are usually framed by what the prosecutor puts before it because thats the only lawyer in the room. To come back and say we are going to charge an officer for all of the violence that he did cause and the danger he caused for those surrounding an area of an apartment where he killed someone, but we are not going to charge him for killing someone shows an outrageous and unbelievable kind of justification for doing nothing around the death of Breonna Taylor<\/a>. Breonna taylor was not even mentioned in the indictment. If anyone wants to know why we are saying black lives should matter, they are clearing saying in louisville today it did not matter. For that attorney general to attack those of us who supported the family at the familys request saying that activists and celebrities are not welcome in kentucky or should not be there to give their views while we are welcome there to watch horses run around the track for the louisville derby louisville, kentucky derby, but were not welcome to stand up for the life and value and worth of a black woman whose only actions that night was she went to bed in her own home committing no crime and involved in no criminal activity. Thats why we continue to march. Thats why we should vote and use the fact that we can vote in november even in kentucky. We ought to send Mitch Mcconnell<\/a> into retirement as a deposit on the justice we want for the Breonna Taylors<\/a> of kentucky. The Kentucky Attorney<\/a> general, who is a republican, talked today about activists from out of state who dont live in kentucky as if they have no right to talk about this. Lets listen to that. There will be celebrities, influencers and activists who having never lived in kentucky will try to tell us how to feel, suggesting that they understand the facts of this case and that they know our community and the commonwealth better than we do. But they dont. Lets not give in to their attempts to influence our thinking or capture our emotions. It sounds like he was talking about you. Me and many others and many that are right down on the ground from out of state. Let me remind people that all of the activities of me and others were there at the ini havetation of a family that wanted justice. Its an old playbook calling people outside agitators. Martin luther king jr. And john lewis, people far greater than us were called that. That will not stop a movement that has gone on all over this country. The way to deal with this is that we must permanently change the laws. One way to do that is change the lawmakers. We must turn our pain into power and vote in november, or we must continue to nonviolently march to keep these issues alive. Breonna taylor and her life mattered and we dont have to be a citizen of louisville to say that. And many citizens in louisville are saying that as well. Just last week, the right thing did happen on the civil case, which the city settled with the family for 12 million. You know that settlement never would have happened without you and others bringing National Attention<\/a> to this case. Well, absolutely. Why would you settle for that record amount of money if there was no wrong done. One of the reasons we marched by the tens of thousands in washington three weeks ago and Breonna Taylors<\/a> mother spoke at that march is because we need george floyd policing and justice act passed by the senate and house that would also make it where officers, if they commit a crime, are subject to the lawsuits and personally have to deal with it. Taxpayers keep paying for what individual officers do and are not held accountable for. We need to change the laws by changing the lawmakers. Please come back next week after your book is available for purchase so we can talk about it. The audience will want to hear about it. There is a lot of life and protest between the covers of that book. Well hear about it next week. Thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you, lawrence. Al sharpton gets the last word. The 11th hour with Brian Williams<\/a> starts now. Good evening. Once again, im ali velshi. I am in for Brian Williams<\/a> who has the night off. Day 1343 of the trump administration, 41 days until the president ial election, just 6 days until the first debate. Tonight we have protests in louisville and around the country after a grand jury declined to bring charges in the Fatal Shooting<\/a> of Breonna Taylor<\/a>. A curfew has been in effect since 9 p. M. Two officers were shot before curfew began. They have been hospitalized. One suspect in custody. The police chief says the injuries are not life threatening. One is in surgery. Demonstrations eruptions have happened in new york and washington, d. C. , louisville. And philadelphia","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia803203.us.archive.org\/34\/items\/MSNBCW_20200924_050000_The_Last_Word_With_Lawrence_ODonnell\/MSNBCW_20200924_050000_The_Last_Word_With_Lawrence_ODonnell.thumbs\/MSNBCW_20200924_050000_The_Last_Word_With_Lawrence_ODonnell_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240619T12:35:10+00:00"}