The president to resign and go away as soon as possible. Meanwhile, trump appears to have no plans to resign and is reportedly lawyering up. Two sources told cnn that trump is considering building an Expert Legal Team to defend him in another impeachment trial. Alan dershowitz and rudy giuliani. No president has ever been impeached twice, let alone with a week and a half left in their presidency. Then again, no president has ever instigated a violent attack on the u. S. Capitol that left five people dead. The Justice Department has now brought charges against 53 people with more arrests happening around the country. Like the guy who stole the speakers podium, who is now sitting in a florida jail cell. But will this accountability extend all the way to the top . Joining me now, congressman Eric Swalwell who was on the house floor when rioters breached the capitol. Congressman swalwell, thank you for being here. Glad you are safe. Tell us your experience of january 6th. Well, congratulations on the show also, jonathan. And calling them rioters is generous to its insulting on rioters and generous to terrorists to storm the capitol and jonathan, i was on the floor. This wasnt just any old day at the capitol. This was a day where we were performing our duties of having a peaceful transition of power as we tabulated the ballots for the Electoral College. And we saw the Capitol Police were overrun. That there was pounding and shouting outside as protesters and radicalized terrorists, the president had sent to us, had breached six different perimeters. They made their way up and into the area right outside the chamber. And we were told, as we sat on the floor to get out our gas masks, to be prepared to duck under the chairs that we were sitting in case gunfire came into the chamber. And many of my colleagues were calling and texting their loved ones. One of my colleagues told her husband where her will was. The chaplain went up on the podium and started to read a prayer as chaos was ensuing outside. I stuck with my best friend in congress, ruben gallego, a military veteran, and watched what he did so that i could try and do the same. And he was helping others open their gas masks and direct them as to how to get them on. We really benefited from the military veterans in our caucus on that. And then we did something that i never thought we would ever do in the history of the capitol, not me or anyone else who served before or after. We left the floor. As one Capitol Hill Police officer told me, he texted his own father, the capitol has fallen as these attackers invaded a sacred symbol for democracy. Congressman swalwell, given what you just described and what the American People saw with their own eyes on wednesday, do you support the effort that is likely to start tomorrow to impeach President Trump a second time . Yes. I support President Trump being gone as soon as possible. Its 250 hours that stands between now and when a new president will be inaugurated. You would think thats going to go by pretty quickly, but we saw that in just a matter of minutes orders from the president could lead to a terrorist incident as occurred on the 6th. I dont think we can afford to wait for that. Ideally the president would do the right thing and resign. The next best thing would be for the Vice President to invoke the 25th amendment. If neither of those are going to happen, we know our act and scene in the congress and what were able to do, and i think we should impeach. There are your republican colleagues in congress who are saying, no, no, no, dont go for impeachment. They sent a letter to Speaker Pelosi demanding she stop the effort building within the Democratic Caucus to impeach the president a second time saying that that would be divisive. Your reaction to that. Ive heard my republican colleagues, including Kevin Mccarthy who have called for us to unite and heal. I want them to know that we are going to unite and heal. Millions of americans are going to unite and heal. But were uniting against you. We are uniting against people like Kevin Mccarthy, ted cruz, josh hawley, the president of the United States who incited and radicalized the terrorists who took the capitol. We are united. Were just united against the people responsible for this attack. Congressman swalwell, do you think that what happened on wednesday was an inside job in that there were people who knew the building, knew the layout, were in on the insurgency . I bring that up because House MinorityHouse Majority whip jim clyburn has raised questions about how did people know where his obscure third floor office was . Congresswoman karen bass will be on later in the show has said something to that account. When i interviewed congressman pramila jayapal, she was the first one i heard raise this question. What do you think . Ive seen enough evidence that we have to answer that question before we have another major event at the capitol. To look at some of the rooms that were raided like the Senate Parliamentarians office. Clearly there was an effort and you heard on the video, they wanted to find the ballots that would hopefully in their minds, stop us from carrying out the peaceful transition of power. You heard them say lets they wanted to kill pelosi. You read many of the filings and the court cases that was their intent and you heard on video they wanted to hang pence, and they were in the area near where they could do that. So i have a lot of questions about whether members or staff, you know, did assist some of the raiders who came into the capitol but we should have an investigation before we draw any conclusions. And an investigation, and a 9 11style investigation . 9 11style commission in addition to ill leave it to the speaker, jonathan, but we so much history takes place at the capitol. The president will be sworn in there in just ten days. Of course, there will be an address to the congress that the new president will give. Then a state of the union and, of course, foreign leaders come. Leaders lie in state there. So theres a lot that happens at the capitol and we must secure it and show ourselves and the world that its still that shining beacon of freedom. With that, well have to leave it there. Congressman Eric Swalwell of california, thanks for coming to the sunday show. My pleasure. Joining me now, laurence tribe, professor of constitutional law at harvard and author of to end a presidency the power of impeachment. Professor tribe, thank you for being here. You have a column in the Washington Post today where you argue that impeachment should be pursued even if conviction in the senate doesnt even happen. Why do you make that argument . We have to pursue impeachment because it is the only clear way of getting rid of this man, unless the Vice President uses his responsibility and authority under the 25th amendment. I think congress should give him the opportunity to do that. Nancy pelosi has invited him to and urged him to do it. But if not that, then we have to immediately impeach. If we do not impeach a president who, as these articles charge, is guilty of incitement to insurrection, then we have really given up democracy. We can do all we can to have the senate conduct a trial and remove him, but even if that does not happen before january 20th, its crucial to impeach him. We have 240 or 250 hours left. And thats an eternity given what this president can do with his hands on the nuclear button. Now nbc has been reporting that Vice President pence isnt likely to invoke the 25th amendment. You think thats a mistake. Thats right because he certainly could gather the cabinet, and this is exactly the circumstance. The only clearer case would be when the president is completely unconscious. But for all practical purposes, this president is unconscious. Hes banging his head against the walls in the white house and he is delusional and who knows what hell do. But if the Vice President does not step up to the plate, then immediately we have to impeach. And that is the sequence that i believe Speaker Pelosi will follow. Lets talk about another amendment that people are talking about, particularly republicans saying dont go to the 25th amendment. Dont go for impeachment, but utilize section 3 of the 14th amendment which basically says that, it bars someone from running again if they engage in insurrection and engage in rebellion against the government. Why do you think that that is not a viable option . It might be afterwards. That is, if the president or anyone else is actually convicted of engaging in insurrection or rebellion and the evidence might well show that, then that would kick in automatically unless twothirds of the house and twothirds of the senate rule that the disqualification should be lifted. But going down that untried path when we havent used since the civil war, at this point would be difficult because the president , although we know, we saw with our own eyes that he was guilty of inciting insurrection, we dont really know how involved he was in the insurrection itself. And we shouldnt get hung up on that when there is a welltrod, clearly available path to remove him and that is through impeachment. One other question i need to ask you about, professor tribe, and that is, there have been stories in the press before the insurrection happened, that the president is continuing to look at the possibility of pardoning himself. You are a constitutional law professor. Is that if he were to do that is that constitutional . Is that legal . Can he actually do that . No. No president has tried and the reason no president has tried is that its clear that the constitution, which says that the president can grant pardons does not include pardoning himself. You dont grant things to yourself, and theres a centuries long history that points in the direction that that would be null and void. But the way to test it, if he dares us by trying to pardon himself is to use that as a further reason to indict and prosecute him. He will invoke his own selfpardon as a defense. The courts will throw it out, and then we will have established for all precedent that president s cant simply put a halo over their own heads. One more question for you, professor tribe, and that is this. Republicans have sent a letter to Speaker Pelosi saying please do not push for impeachment. It would be divisive at a time the country needs to come together. Your response to that . My response is that to say that we should all sing kumbaya when we have a president in office who tries to overthrow the government and prevent his successor from taking office, it is really to throw in the towel on the long and wonderful republican form of government experiment that we have here. There will be time to heal, but only after trump is gone. And i should add some people think that it violates the First Amendment to go after trump on this basis. Jonathan turly, allan dershowitz. The First Amendment is something he will invoke if and when he is prosecuted criminally. Hell say that my incitement was really just advocacy. I think thats a crock basically. But thats the time to invoke it. Impeachment is not criminal prosecution. Its a way of protecting the country. And it is a complete confusion to say that the First Amendment protects what he did. It would mean that president s are free under the First Amendment to rile up mobs. Its worse than crying fire in a crowded theater. This is like going to a mob and saying, fire when they are about to go after the other branch of government. There is no First Amendment reason not to proceed quickly. And with that, well have to leave it there, professor laurence tribe, thank you. If you want more of laurence tribes take on this unprecedented moment, tune in to my podcast on tuesday. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Coming up mounting information on a number of Law Enforcement officials among those who attacked our nations capitol this week. More on that, next. What are you doing . Art class. Its abstract expressionism. When you start with a better hot dog from oscar mayer, you can do no wrong. Its all for the love of hot dogs. And still going for my best. Even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib. Not caused by a heart valve problem. So if theres a better treatment than warfarin, im reaching for that. Eliquis. Eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. 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According to the new yorker, the man seen in this photo carrying zip ties has identified himself as larry bronch jr. , a retired air force lieutenant colonel. And there are reports that current or retired members of the Law Enforcement community were among though insurrectionists. At least two Seattle Police offic officers, a firefighter from sanford, florida, and two fdny members were spotted in and around the capitol during wednesdays siege. Their respective departments say theyre investigating the matter while the fdny says they handed over information theyve gathered to the fbi. Joining me now is phillip botiva goff from Yale University and cofounder and ceo of the center for policing equity. Professor goff, thank you for being here. Youre the perfect person to have here to talk about this. My first question to you is this were you surprised . Are you surprised that members of Law Enforcement were participants in the insurrection at the u. S. Capitol . I am hurt, i am disappointed, but i cant be surprised because i have read history. We have never had largescale mob racial violence without either the tacit or active participation of onduty and offduty Law Enforcement and our military. Its the way we get down when we do mob racist violence in the United States. So i wish i could say that i was surprised, but i cant. So were now showing pictures that we werent just showing pictures next to you of the person who was carrying zip ties right there. Zip ties. For what purpose would someone be carrying zip ties, especially dressed like that . Okay, so first, we have to address the fact that he is allegedly gone on the record to say he just found them and picked them up. So we have to address the fact that there are these narratives of false innocence about, oh, i just found the feces and didnt know where to put them, so i put them on the wall. I just happened to run into the speakers office. We have to call that out as complete and utter impossible bs. But those zip ties are the kinds of things you use when you want to take a large number of people and essentially detain them. Thats what you use for kidnappings. Also what you use for mass arrests. If you want to move people from one place to another place and you dont have access to metal handcuffs. Those are an attempt to take folks in the capitol hostage. I know when we were first seeing this in part for sort of the good reasons you dont want to show that level of violence without knowing what the heck is happening. We didnt see how dangerous this was. We didnt see armed folks. We didnt see the footage of someone being shot. But this was an incredibly dangerous moment for our democracy and for everybody in the capitol. Folks had plans and military training that they could have pulled off far worse, far more violent and dragged people out of that capitol. There was, my understanding, a functional gallows constructed in front of the capitol. So if you wanted to lynch somebody on the steps of the capitol, you would bring those kind of zip ties to get them from their office to the hanging noose. Thats what you use it for. And as we know, theres been video of people chanting as they were pushing their way into the capitol, hang mike pence, hang mike pence. What possible explanation, professor goff, could there be for just it just doesnt seem like there was any plan whatsoever to be prepared for what happened. We just saw six months ago with black l