Transcripts For MSNBCW The Week With Joshua Johnson 20210110

MSNBCW The Week With Joshua Johnson January 10, 2021

Action against the president. We will introduce this on monday, and we first hope donald trump will resign or be removed by 25th amendment. If that doesnt happen, he will be the first president to be impeached twice by two separate congressing. Nearly 250 lawmakers are calling for the president s removal. Some are his fellow republicans. Those include senator pat toomey. Republican senator ben sasse of nebraska also says he would definitely consider articles of impeachment. Mr. Sass accused the president of office. Murkowski said, i want him out. These articles of impeachment could ban donald trump from running for office again and that could kill his plans for a 2024 campaign. Do democrats have the votes, including votes from republicans . Lets begin this hour with the latest on that deadly attack. Five people are dead, including Capitol Police officer brian. The search for those involved continues and the number of arrests is growing. The fbi announced more arrests r linked to wednesdays insurrection. They include this guy. Prosecutors say adam johnson was carrying House Speaker Nancy Pelosis lecturn throughout the capitol. The fbi identified and arrested him last night in florida. Lets begin with ginger gibson. Gar gary, let me start with you. Where do we stand with arrests . So it turns out, joshua, if you walk in to the capitol and you commit a crime on camera, the fbi will want to find you and going to want to talk to you. All across d. C. , fbi wanted signs looking for more information on some of these folks. There have been 16 people charged with federal crimes and about 40 people charged with crimes that are of a lessor value in d. C. Superior court. So well take you through some of the ones charged recently. First that adam johnson. 36yearold from florida was found and spotted walking through the Capitol Rotunda with speaker Nancy Pelosis lecturn. There is also here jacob, wearing horns and the bear suit and he was walking through the capitol as well. Theyre all being charged here with violent entry, Disorderly Conduct among other charges. There is a number of investigations going on here in terms of the Capitol Police. What happened there with the Capitol Police . Were they simply understaffed . Undermanned . What happened is a lot of questions to be answered. A lot more arrests to be made in the coming daying. You were at the capitol earlier. What was it like today compared to what happened on wednesday . So actually got a chance to walk inside the capitol this morning before my morning tv hits. It was a field of shattered glass that hadnt been cleaned up. You may have seen that photo of the axe body spray. But for the most part it was cleaned up. But outside is really where the security was much heavier than we saw earlier this week. There were seven foot tall nonscaleable fences that were supported by these cement jersey barriers across the entire complex and there was hundreds of National Guards brought in from virginia, from maryland, from new jersey all to support the metropolitan Police Department and the Capitol Police department. There is a lot of chatter as you were mentioning earlier in the show about a possible round two that could happen in the coming days. Should that happen, there is certainly going to be met with a lot more force than they were last time. Ginger, let me ask you about your experience. You were there that day and you tweeted that you and other people who were with the press covered up the press signs so people in the crowd would not know they were members of the media . Thats right. I was in the capitol to cover the electoral count for nbc on wednesday. And the crowd started to come inside. And as youre seeing, we took a jacket hidden in this room above the senate chambers. There is a sign that says radio tv gallery for fear that the protesters or the rioters would get inside. We covered it up so that if they did, we on a last, you know, irrational moment in the moment thought we could convince them we werent journalists for fear that they would target us once they figured out we were. Just to clarify, could you talk about the security you normally encounter as a journalist covering the capitol. You normally just cant walk right in. I cant just walk right in. Tours that come in normally cant just walk right in. There is security. You are going to have your bags search. You will go through an xray. You will walkthrough a metal detector. There is a lot of security to ensure that people are not bringing weapons into the building on a normal day. And i think that that gave us a little bit of false sense of security when they first started to approach the building, i thought, you know, surely there will be more effort made to stop them from getting inside. And i walked down the hall. I went towards the sounds of the shouting because i thought truly there is someone stopping them. That just wasnt the case. You cannot claim to love america and love the constitution and attack journalists. The framers wrote us into the constitution for a reason. Just doesnt add up. Gary and ginger, thank you both. Joining us now are two lawmakers who were inside the capitol on wednesday. Good to have both of you with us. Id like to hear both of your experiences inside the capital briefly. What is the most vivid image that stands out to you from what you encountered that day . Well, joshua, i was in my Cannon Office building and then we heard an evacuation because there was a pipe bomb nearby so we fled out of the building. I was actually walking towards the capitol and i got frantic texts from people saying dont go into the capitol. Its been overrun. We went back to the cannon building. We werent sure if it had been cleared but that was a better alternative than going in the Capitol Building. Congresswoman, what about you . It is the most vooifd image for you that day . I was in house gallery waiting for the pennsylvania delegation to be asked to speak on the floor, and we started the process of evacuation after a number of alarming texts and messages and after the speaker had been removed from the floor. And my most vivid memory is trying to crawl through the circumference of the gallery. I was at the farthest most point from the evacuation door with a number of other members, and we were literally just crawling and trying to make our way through amid gunshots, breaking glass, pounding on the doors. You tweeted earlier about how this week has been traumatic, urged people to prioritize their mental health. How have you been since then . Are you okay . For me . Yes, congressman. Yes. You know, i have been fine, but my thoughts are obviously with the tragic loss of life of the police officer, you know, i mean, gruesome. The fire extinguisher banged into his head. The loss of life of civilians. A lot of this staff are very shaken up in the capitol. These are young people. They dont make a lot of money. This is Public Service for them and they feel in many ways terrorized. So personally im fine, but there are a lot of people who are not fine. Congresswoman, who about you . Do you feel that the capitol is a safe place for you to work . I know there had already been safety concerns because of covid19. With this on top of that, how safe do you feel at the capitol . You know, i think that they will make us safe. My biggest concern right now is for everybody who was there and present and the delayed reaction. There are a number of us who were in the gallery that day. The gallery as opposed to the floor. The gallery being that area that, you know, is above the birds eye view of the floor. And we felt actually at times forgotten. Th we actually formed a group. Were having a therapy session tomorrow morning and a Group Therapy via zoom. It was a very, very, very difficult and alone feeling, and since it happened a number of us have found comfort in sharing our experiences with one another. Let me ask you, too, about the path forward. You have both expressed support for impeachment and or the 25th amendment as a way to remove donald trump as president and prevent him for running from office again. We have a question from a viewer that i would love you to respond to. A viewer asks what would you recommend as the best way a citizen can support or influence congress in impeaching and removing trump . Think its a worthwhile question considering that Mitch Mcconnell has said that any impeachment trial would not happen until after the inauguration at the very earliest. How would you respond, congressman . Joshua, i appreciate the viewers question. I would say there are a number of republicans who voted ultimately for certification. They stood up for the constitutional process, and i think outreach to them saying this is about affirming american values. You cannot have in this country a president of the United States incite a mob to go storm the capitol and interrupt democracy. Thats just not how we do things in america. And i dont understand how we can have donald trump remain as president with the actions that he took in inciting a mob going to the capitol. My sense is there are other Reasonable Republicans who have certified the erection who share that view and outreach to them could be very careful. I wonder if you would respond to this viewer who sent us a video message about how theyre feeling after all of this. Watch. Im bill finnegan. As the son of an american and World History teacher, this week was unforgivable. The week started with our president on the phone pleading for severe states Rights Violations from georgias secretary of state. That taped conversation led to an invasion of our capitol on wednesday, provoked by donald trump. Impeachment is necessary so this person can never run for the office of president again. Thank you. Bill, thanks very much for that. Congresswoman, the totality of the week is whats weighing on him. How would you react to that . In the words of jim clie born, we are teetering on the edge of democracy right now. This vote on impeachment is not nearly as hard for me as the first one was. There is no question in my mind that we have to establish boundaries and that we have to make it clear that this kind of conduct from the commander in chief is absolutely unacceptable. These people were not only incited but encouraged to do what they did on wednesday. We need to make a very Firm Statement that no future leader of the United States can do this kind of thing and get away with it. I know i have to let yall go in a second. But, congressman, what about that, this idea that we are teetering on the edge of democracy. Does it feel we are in a state of that kind of fragility to you right now . We are a deeply polarized nation and i never thought the president would incite violence. But we had republican lawmakers stand up for joe biden. We had secretaries of state stand up to this president. We had the Senate Majority leader too late but stand up to this president and the Vice President stand up to it and republican appointed courts affirm the election. So there is a lot of resilience in american democracy. My view is our country is stronger than the right wing nut cases are invaded the capital. Glad you are both safe. I hope you both stay well and awe appreciate you making time for us. Still to come, we will hear from a former Counter Intelligence official at the fbi about the threat of domestic terrorism. Plus, each and every person who took part in that riot has something in common. They have all got family. What should you do if your loved one holds extremist views . Well get to all of that after the headlines with richard liu. Some of the stories were watching, china put 11 Million People in lockdown in a city near beijing. Residents are banned from leaving that city. Major highways are blocked. Flights canceled. The u. S. Economy lost 140,000 jobs in december. It is the first decline in eight months. Trump is the first modern president to leave office with a smaller workforce than when he began. And it turns out president elect joe biden will not be the only biden celebrated on inauguration day. The bidens adoptive dog major will get an indogeration and become first dog. More of the week with Joshua Johnson right after the break. T. 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Com vowing to return to washington the week of president elect bidens inauguration. They are using platforms like parlor, chat rooms and a website called the donald. Win to rile each other up. This is how wednesdays insurrection came about. Frank writes, quote, lets be clear. What happened to our democracy that day was not an intelligence failure. It was a failure to act upon available intelligence, unquote. Frank joins us now. Hes former assistant director for Counter Intelligence for the fbi and the author of the fbi way. Also joining the conversation is the senior editor. A lot has been discussed about domestic terrorism this week. What is domestic terrorism . Is there a Legal Definition and does this insurrection on wednesday fit the bill . So the answer to both those questions is, yes, there is a Legal Definition and, yes, the insurrection on capitol hill absolutely fits into that definition. But here is the next question that we all need to ask and ponder why isnt there a federal domestic Terrorism Law . We have a definition. We have people doing it. We dont have a federal law against it. We have one that deals with international terrorism. Joshua, if we change the religion and the skin color of the people entering that capitol buildi building, we would have had the fbi calling it international terrorism. Most importantly, we would have had the investigative tools in the tool kit to allow the fbi to get out ahead of it and possible prevent it from happening because they would have put informants in those groups and organizations. They would have been monitoring chat rooms and posts far more than they are able to do now and action that intelligence. I want to make sure i understand you. Because there is no specific Legal Definition of domestic terrorism, that means that the fbi cant prosecute it, cant investigate it the way they would investigate, say alqaeda or isis or an International Terrorist group. Does this mean they have any power to investigate this . To be clear, there is a Legal Definition of domestic terrorism. There is no law no place that makes domestic terrorism illegal. In other words, you can possibly use domestic terrorism as an enhancement to a sentence. You cannot use it to actually prosecute and get a higher consequence. For example, were looking at trespass charges, possible assault, possible left of the speaker of the houses mail. Thats all well and good. But if these were International Terrorists acting on a violent jihad, they would be charged with Material Support to terrorism and they would likely be spending 20 years to life in federal prison. You wrote about the maga geniuses plot to take over the u. S. Capitol the day before this insurrection happened. What were some of the missed warning signs that you saw . It seems like if the fbi or if Capitol Police or other Law Enforcement read the way i happened to read that day, they might have caught some of this. Yeah, joshua. In the days before the march there were posts appearing on the donald, you know, talking about how supporters might take over the u. S. Capitol. There were threads with names like if we occupy the Capitol Building there would be in vote. There is one that fan ta sized about taking members of Congress Hostage calling it an opportunity that will never present itself again. They shared maps of the tunnels, links to the capitols website about the capitol subway. One funny thing is one person said the urlaoc. Gov was triggering them. But i got to be honest, i thought it was a joke. One does simply not walk into the u. S. Capitol. I asked the Capitol Police about it anyway. They told me they had plans in place and there was really nothing to worry about. Hold up. They said aoc. Gov was triggering them . You mean the website for the architect of the capitol, not alexandria ocasiocortez. Thats correct. Thats caused some confusion before. It was all happening out in the open. Oh, lord. I dont know. Frank, i got to put some questions to you from some of our viewers, particularly one who needs to know why the insurrection was contained while on the Capitol Grounds and identified picture name and phone before allowed to leave the property. S

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