Hello, new york. Thank you for joining us live at town hall in new york city for the Special Edition of why is this happening. Hes incisive. He is big hearted, hes very, very smart. Admit it, he is taller than you expected. Give a warm welcome to my friend, my beloved colleague, chris hayes. [applause] thank you. Stop it. How are you . Good. Thanks, thank you, thank you, thank you. Sit down. Thank you, its extremely kind. I hate attention and positive feedback. Its a very hard 20 seconds for me. Thanks for cutting it short. Le pen fits very amazing to be here in my hometown of new york city. Ive got my family here. Tonight we are going to talk about democracy. That word, we have probably talked more about democracy in the last four or five years that i had talked about all of my time as a journalist before that. Even that as a topic seems very weird. Americas a democracy, and there is a certain kind of history that we are taught as a part of the Mystery Civic Culture totally. Even civic religion. It roughly goes the following. The founders rebelled against the tyranny of the crown. The injustice of monarchy. They conceived in liberty a new nation. It was founded on a new government by and for the people. That is the link in the Gettysburg Address where shun of it. They rejected the idea that there is some authority above all of us that has dominion over us. It was determined as a whole faith collectively, which is a difficult and messy process. In the eyes of some of the founders, it is sort of a natural truth. That is the idea. Its the idea of what we all will do. That simple fundamental and radical vision is what separates us on the Western Hemisphere from the old world of europe, where you have monarchies and Kings And Queens and tyrants. As time went on, various forms of blood and soil, authoritarianism, eventually factualism, you dont really get democracies in that part of the world in the way that we think about the mental afterwards. There are some. There are democratic forms of government existing before, than a bunch of film resolutions. A bunch of comprises that it worked out in the uk, poland, different parts of the continent. Basically we are the model for the world. Right . We are the first ones. We figured it out, we slapped off the yoke of tyranny and seized our faith. The other part of the story that we all know is a very complicated story. As one british critic said at the time , the loudest cries of liberty come from The Americans as they whip their slaves. That is a important point that they saw at the time. People saw the time, there was a incredible and ridiculous attention in american rhetoric about Self Determination that democracy. General story that we have is that we start with an imperfect democracy and work towards a more perfect democracy. The more Perfect Union in the preamble. I think there is something towards the story. I dont think its a crazy story. There is a specific religion we have. There is another way we speak about the story of american democracy. America is the ongoing dynamic sight of Perpetual Contestation over democracy. It is the site of a constant pitched battle on the side of the democracy and forces against them. It forces against them are not fringe characters. Sometimes the forces against them are the most celebrated people in the country. Andrew jackson, hes viewed as a small d democrats because he railed against the elites. He founded the modern Democratic Party with populism. He invited the people into the white house where they all got drunk. He was not in a recognizable state a democrat in the way that we think about it today. He thought there was a cast of people that was ruling over another test of people. He was major pursuers of the Ethnic Cleansing that made the continent what it was. He did not think the everybody had in universal, elaineable writes that should release collectively. He thought the white man should rule over slaves and over the Indigenous People that populated the planet. Im not saying this and a interjection is canceled way. He should be. To be clear. Im actually talking about a specific way where characterizing the ideological Belief System of Andrew Jackson. Is it acts right to call Andrew Jackson a small d democrats . Is it accurate to call him a believer in democracy . I think that it is tough to say that he is. At least in the modern science. That is the best sense. Theodore Roosevelt National park mount rushmore. What if Theodore Reza believes . And writes, and says often that whites should rule over the other races. He found the american empire. In the pacific, where we will rule over these people. Theyre not going to get the vote. Theyre not going to be set a sense, theyre not equal, they are subject to authority. They are forced to be under that authority. Again, with all of these examples that im giving. There are people that recognize this. One of the most pitched debates in the Florida Congress is about the trail of fears. People come to the world to say that this is they didnt have the charm at the time, Ethnic Cleansing. Its totally unjust. These people have inalienable rights. When we start fighting for our wars, pursuing american empires, there are those at the time being very prominent among them. We are doing the thing that we hated the crown for doing. For each moment at American History where we are having what the meaning of democracy is, there are contemporaries on each side of the debate. There is not these neat tea leaves, need arc where we have been confused. Dont understand it slavery is wrong. But then we walk into the light. They knew. They knew that the Trail Of Tears was wrong. They knew the wars in the philippines was wrong. There were people that very clearly saw what it was. It is clear at every point. It is clear up until the period and run up to world war ii. That story, we learned, is basically the following. Because of the trauma of world war i, u. S. Is reticent of getting more wars unreal european shores. Fair. We kind of diverse. Fdr comes up with right . Thats the basic version. Hes kind of trying to straddle. He realizes that something should have to be done. Its hard to give americans into an idea of the Second World War just second days later. Then hovered helpers, where in, fascism happens. Go us. [laughter] that is basically the story. That story masks exactly the same thing. It is masked yay to the creation of the u. S. Empire under theodore roosevelt. Contemporary us and debates in a society about what democracy is and whether it is good. Whether what we actually do want is for all of us to collectively as individuals for sovereign rights over ourselves, collectively coming together to transfer the sovereignty into a collective we decide as a democracy into how we will mark our faith. How we will go forward. Dominion, ruled by some group or opinion. That is an internal debate in american politics. We will realize this in a way that we did not appreciate until we found ourselves in this moment now where we are able to debate every day. It feels ridiculous, alien, feels like we landed from mars. How did we come to a consensus on this . Did we not all agree we were in a democracy . Was it not the fact it in the old days we would fight along the 40 yard lines as a clichi . We did not have extremes, a clichi, the debate has been there the entire time. One of the most useful interventions in understanding the debate being there the entire time comes by way of this upcoming talent that ive spotted. I have a pretty good eye. It is remarkable, a podcast called ball struck that came out a year ago. If you havent known about it, go downloaded, subscribe to my podcast and download ultra and it is the story of an attempt at basically a fascist sympathizer in the u. S. To prior to the war, and their efforts. The incredible links they went to. I wont spoil, it we will talk about it in a second. Subsequently, that has returned part of it. I want to urge people, because this is been under the gun deadline wise. I want to urge people to or read the book. This prequel, you see it . [applause] its not just the pot gust in the book. It goes so much further. Its an incredible read. Its kind of a skeleton key for this particular moment. Without further ado, i would like to introduce the author and prequel, my dear friend my beloved colleague rachel maddow. There are a lot of people here. For those listening on the podcast, theres 20,000 people. These are all just little blobs. I cant see you all. And telephone. I want to start with your way into this material. I have to say, its an incredible talent that you have. This is been true for you television show, these unexplored nuggets in American History. These people it dont now. You tell them, what . That actually happened . Ultra was an incredible example of that. I knew who Father Coughlin loves. Hes the right wing antisemitic populist preacher. I knew that. I knew that there was this american first Le Pen Movement of lindberg. I read the which is great. It is great. That was kind of my cannon for those things. I knew those things. Nothing else appeared in that proud cast. I want you to explain what was your way into this material. It really wasnt in the surface. I never set out to its always been something that has brian from something going on in the news. The thing that i get dinged for rightly, in terms of the way i do the right work, if i want to tell you about something happening in the world today. First, a meteor hit the earth. Then the dinosaurs died. Then their bodies dissolved. Thats a good bid. I know thats why im alienated, its not everyones cup of tea. I love you too. That is the way the my brain works. I was as unnerved as everybody, but just as confused as interested that we were seeing all of this out right near nasty antisemitic or neonazi step around the lives of trumpism. Trumpism is happening in the electoral politics base. Then we have the things i dont think we call them that anymore. It was seeing them rise alongside trump and parallel movements, i didnt see why that was. I wanted to figure out why not just antisemitism, but specifically holocaust in iowa has functioned in the United States before. That was the starting point . That was the starting point. If you go back part up in terms of american Holocaust Denial, which i did, you get back to like 1948. I like houston al is a lot of different things, but one thing is weird. So much evidence that it happened, how can we say that it didnt happen . Thats especially true in 1948 where there are lots of people in the world that are witnesses to what happened. How can it be that it is a source of denial for Political Movement . Its not that they honestly believe that it didnt happen. They are using Holocaust Denial for a reason as part of a political project. Thats what i got into in the 40s, and its how i found my defendants. Its how i learned that they got put on trial. They got off when the judge died. I was going to tell a different story, i got to tell a different one. I didnt you trace in the book different strands of pro fascist and antisemitic not see aligned thoughts and actors in the u. S. How would you describe . There is a little bit of a misfit toys situation, there are also odd ones in there. Theyre operating in the cursive environment where there is not closed off to what they are saying. Tell me about Public Opinion around the question of fascism and the rise of it in 1930, 31, 32, where some of the people you document in the book are trying to, and sometimes at the best of the German Government cultivate sympathy. Fascism was the movement of the future. Fascism did not have the cast that we have socioeconomic. Respectfully with not see germany. The number one selling book in america in 1941 was written by Charles Lindberghs wife, and it was about how fascism came to america, wouldnt that be fantastic . We could finally get stuff done. It was in fact, a lot of people that have looked into it believe, and i cant say this definitively, a lot of people believe it was Ghost Written By A Guy NamedLawrence Dennis, the leading intellectual fascist. The coming american fascism. He went on one of the things that we found was told Nbc Radio Archives from a telling meeting of the air, a great debate show that he hosted on one of the nbc radio networks. One of the very first ones that they did, they brought Lawrence Dennis in to argue for fascism against everybody arguing against fascism. It was a popular thing. 43 of the population was against it. Thats what he was up against. A lot of that was not fighting another war, but some of it was that the people you fight against, they might have the beta. How did they go about cultivating you talk about dennis for a little bit, worthwhile spending a time on. Lawrence denis had been a statewide department official. He had gone to harvard. He was a very area day, articulate guy. He was he had a stump stacked contra very next to him. You could complement him without insulting him for complimenting you. Who is that kind of a guy. In his gruffness and contrary ness, he made everybody fall in love with them. He was seen by men, women, old, young, nobody had he slapped his way through the 1930s. In a way where he did not understand why his wife minded. He was Writing Speeches in books for the isolationists, and the isolationists werent calling each other fascist overtly. They had a leading fascist in america writing their stuff. He was a favorite of did not see government in berlin. They brought him over for the nuremberg rallies, brought him over to germany, brought him access to everybody including hitler. He used it to essentially become a very networked and influential person. He interviewed miscellany, heller, interviewed everybody that was an interesting and important diplomat of the time. He came home and write speeches for isolationists senators and books for the wives and heroes. He was one of the sedition trial defendants. He was so arrogant that he not only defended himself but insisted that they should be mental examinations. Once they realize hes kind of the leading hes a leading fascist american intellectual, but this seat is being planted in somewhat fertile soil. I wonder if you could talk about why thats the case. World war i was brutal and awful. Theres an interesting thing that happens in this book, people understandably and reasonably know that thats a disaster. Its being prepared to like, we can never do that again. The pastor, which is not a crazy posture, being the kind of stability slow by which they end up in first initiationism and outright fascism. You have the oppression and you have this sort of like, the brokenness of the american system versus the messiness of democracy. All three of those things are running themes in the people that are pushing for, proposing for, or in the case of huey long, providing an alternate. Yes. I think is easiest to see it when you look at what the germans are secretly telling us. One of the things we now, and this is also in the book, theres a very big, very aggressive, very well funded secret german pop began to effort with the American People. Theyre basically trying to do three things. I guess you can narrow that down to. One of them was to support i say isolationism however they could. That would help you here in. Any argument against The Americans, they were all for them. They also want to tear us against our allies by making a succeed fascism in every form of government. They are arguing that we should not go to war to defend our ally, britain. What sense are they really allies . They are cool, theyre weak, but the germans that have a much better idea are going to run over them in a matter of weeks. Why should we side with the Failing Empire and now with the germans that have a better idea . Theyre making us believe that what they are as that we should change our form of government. By having a democracy, we are opening ourselves up by having the jews, by having international forces, by sending us into the meat grinder of the wars where we should just let germany go inside with them. They were trying to articulate all of this things by any american voices that they can put our words into the mouth of. Its members of congress, its u. S. Senators, its people like lawrence tennis that they are finding up to was. Its an american not see asian running 12 different publications its magazines. Its messages are trying to sell us. Its just unnerving and clarifying to see them. Its so much the story there are still being sold by those that would prefer that we became a strongman for a form of government sensitive document to see the say its the exact same. Its time to feed the dogs real food, not highly processed pellets. The farmers dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. Its not dry food. Its not wet food. Its just real food. Its an idea whose time has come. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. But im protected with arexvy. Arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. But im protected. 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