Since hamass preemptive strike on occupied palestine on october the 7th, but sadly for them, theyre no longer the only media that people get their news from. After some 75 years of the ongoing genocide in palestine, the journalists on the ground were finally able to get their voice across to people all over the world and to inform them of the bombings that have killed tens of thousands of palestinians, mostly women. And children, and thats when october 7th could no longer justify the ongoing genocide, even in the minds of former supporters of the Israeli Regime, now many have already realized that Mainstream Media blamed hamas to buy more time for the zionist regime to murder as many palestinians as they could, and to occupy as much land as possible, but the question remains from legal perspective, who is responsible for the thousands of lives loss . Especially since october the 7th. Hello, im marzia hashimi and this is hidden files. This is the discussion that we will have today with lawyer and doctor of jurisprudence and human rights activist stanley cohan. Stay tuned please. Stanley cohen is an American Lawyer and human rights activist. Following graduation from college, stanley started working as vista volunteer. And helped set up Legal Service projects in native american reservations. Cohen then went to work as a Community Organizer to tackle the issues of homeless teens and later as an administrator in a federally funded antipoverty agency. He then went to law school to defend human rights a legal level and earned a doctorate of jurisprudence. Since then he has worked on various lawsuits from those taking on the nsa spying program. To others involving false accusations, targeting various minorities and individuals, defending patrics lumumba against accusations of the Material Support of terrorism, and defending the hamas political leader against extradition by the israely regime. Due to his success in various such legal projects, stanley kohan has for long been a target for smearing campaigns and various threats which he has survived to date. Well, thank you so much, stanley coin for being with us. Id like to start off with Mainstream Medias favorite question, do you condemn hamas and what are the legal definitions of their actions, according to law . I i like to respond to that question with, who did you pick on before hamas from 1936 to 1985 . The Mainstream Media likes to use hamas as the convenient boogie man, likes to use any. Quote and quote islamist movement, even one thats overseeing uh with all the difficulties the Civil Society uh that was voted into office, but its always hamas, hamas, hamas, so they look to october 7th and they completely ignore uh the history of israeli genocide, israeli ethnic cleansing, israeli war crimes, israeli crimes against humanity, and they say its hamas. Do i couldem hamas . No, hamas is National Liberation movement that has been in the forefront. The resistance since 1985, it has a leadership that is highly educated, sophisticated, learned, committed to their people from gaza, these are not people that one day pick got a plane and came from brooklyn as designers are to some foreign country, these are people that that that grew up in in gaza, many of whom the leadership left over number of years to pursue education elsewhere, received doctorate degrees, the academic. Uh, youve represented many people who couldnt afford to pay you along the way, and i mean giving your expertise and your experience, you could have had lot more money, why did you choose a different path . I recently had a discussion with a journalist who asked me the same question, i said, well, im sure Henry Kissinger did not get to take his money with him, im sure bill gates will not be able to take his. Money with him, we have to make choices in life, is it about the pursuit of of of profit, is it about the pursuit of power, is it about political control, or is it about being part of a World Community thats here for very limited period of time, that they too were not going to spend their lives pursuing money uh, but pursuing justice. Well, why did you uh, youve decided to represent a lot of hamas officials and other groups too, although there would be repercussions for you, why is that the case . Well, i had years before i represented abu marzuek, was one of the founders of hamas, was the original head of political wing and is now still a major Senior Leader of the movement, i had been involved in supporting palestinian selfdetermination, palestinian independence, palestinian liberation as young lawyer, i organized some political actions, i was involved as as an attorney. Representing people that were protesting against israel years before even hamas evolved. Um, i had very active role in a in a muslim in the Islamic Community in the United States, not trying to singularize it, because obviously its a community of diversity with different priorities and back through my work representing many dozens of albanian muslims who were charged with various situations in the United States and who eventually, as a result of negotiations went to bosnia and joined the kla with the approval of the United States, in essence fighting before the United States drag nato in, before the bombings occurred, that connected me in a different light to the Muslim Community in the United States in general and to the Palestinian Community in particular, and then one day when i was had just finished very long trial, was getting ready to go and holiday for few weeks, i got a call, from the leaders of one of these organizations who asked me if i could go to the federal prison that there was a gentleman who had been picked up suddenly on an immigration hole someone who was a lawful resident in the United States and i really was too tired and i couldnt do it and i recommended other lawyers and and then as in aside i said well who is this person and then he mentioned a name to me and the name didnt mean anything to me um at the time and he said musa abu and i said who is that and then he said well i said no, im really, im tired, i need to get away, ive got family and friends that are expecting me, weve got a cabin on on on on the ocean, and then he said, well hes the head of the months and i went, oh okay, so i called my family and i said, look, youre gonna have to do what you have to do on your own, ive got to go see this gentleman, and i went to meet up, we spent day or half a day talking and ill never forget he looked at me when i walked in and he said he looked up and down at me up and down i had my hair was all over the place and i had group dungaries on and i had a sweatshirt on that said the first thing we do quoting shakespeare will kill all the lawyers and he looked at me and he said who are you and i i told him i used a certain term that id a phrase that i had been told to use to give him comfort that i wasnt there as a representative of the government i had friends and i used it and he said well who are you as he stared at me up and down amazed and looked at me and i said well im a lawyer and he looked at me up and down he said youre a lawyer he said i dont need a lawyer and i said youre right you dont need one lawyer you need a dozen and he laughed and he said sit down and i did and that was the beginning of uh probably a thousand hours with the oneonone discussions that he and i had over the next two years while we forgot his cases. Initially it was for a removal order from the United States and then the connessit unprecedented act issued rest warrant and demanded his extradition to israel to stand trial for the father. We became very close over the course of two years and is not just a founder of framer in the original head of the political wing of hamas, hes a brilliant political scientist, hes a brilliant international, shes a travel general who has still does obviously tremendous experience and politics and reality and history, he understands. Well, thats its quite interesting, quite beautiful. I want to look at if you give me permission ask you a question about your twitter account or x, because you have a profile picture of two hamas leaders there. Id like to know why you have chosen that picture for your profile picture. Sheikh ahmed was a friend. Um, i had the privilege and the pleasure of spending time with him being hosted by him in gaza on five or six occasions before he was assassinated. Um, abunab was dear friend. Um, i spent lot of time with abunab. In fact, the car in which he was assassinated as by an israeli rocket, i had been in that car just four or five days before he had been murdered, um going to an interview and to show you the the kindness, the support, the love of the Palestinian Community in general in my relationship with it, i had left gaza, i was handling case in california, i was early in the morning, i was asleep and my phone rang, and it was abu shanabs wife who told me she was. Giving me her condolences. She told me that abu shanab had been assassinated several hours before, and she wanted to give my her condolences to me, his wife of decades, the mother of his children, because she knew how close we were, we were very close, whenever i would go to gaza, i would spend hours and days with abushinab, hed be my escort, he was a professor of engineering at the Islamic University in gaza, he was educated, got his phd in the United States, he was very Close Friends with. We hit it off right away. Um, and i could think of no better way of honoring the memory of these two great warriors, these two wonderful, dynamic, principled fighters for justice and human rights. Well, there are those who talk about hamas and october the 7th and the legality as we are in the middle of this israeli genocide. I mean, id like to hear your perspective, based on International Law regarding both sides of this. Situation under International Law, an occupying force, an occupy state is permitted to maintain the deminimus or the minimum, the minimum amount of Security Apparatus until theres a resolution as to the occupation, and that may mean small military outposts, that may mean the presence of of Occupying Military or security forces, it does not permit the introduction. Of as they have here some 800 thousand um uh largely european colonialist jews into the west bank. It does not permit the theft of land and the establishment of socalled settlements. It does not permit for the building of walls. It does not permit for the establishment of infrastructure of economy of of of of of infrastructure, a system that is comparable basically to a city. It doesnt. Permitted um and what they do israel again in going one step further they decided because its quote and quoted a military zone then people that have been in the military zone for tens of you for thousands of years are not entitled to do process of the occupying state, theyre not entitled to get access to Israeli Courts, and as weve seen for years now, even those israelies going to the Israeli Court system are denied any real moticum of justice to process and equal protection. With the system of government in which the connessic can largely overrule what the court system wants to do, so what theyve done is theyve established this military system, its its staffed by military judges, by military security people out of uniform are not civilians, is really police out of uniform are not civilians, settlers that are carrying weapons are not civilians, settler outposts that have heavy duty weapons, its not a civilian outpost, so theres that whole definition, but clearly children, the elderly, the infirm are civilian under International Law and should not be removed, but the problem that we is not knowing who did what, when, where, why or how, with just competing narratives, but when we talk about competing narratives, theres no debate over whats going on in gaza, theres no debate whats been going on in palestine for 75, 80, 85 years even before the United Nations crafted israel, response. To that is israel prove your case, the International Criminal court ruled in 2021 that it has jurisdiction, not just over palestine because its a signatory to the rome statute. Well, i cant believe were still watching this murder take place a daily basis, that what can be done to stop this genocide immediately in your perspective . The icc has enough problem for cause and theres enough evidence to issue rest warrants for netanyahu, dozen of his top advisors, that and immediately limits their ability to travel, that immediately sends a message to people that want to come there to meet with them, conspire with them, that raises the accountability and the concern, because that really sends the message, okay . Youre youre youre you you you are suspected criminal, there was an arrest warrant for you, were going to file it with interpol, there is some some standing for the notion that assets can be frozen, which iran is well versed in, although its been used up, not not legally against theran over the years, but as a political weapon, um, assets can be frozen, organizations, private entities that are now providing money, that are now providing weapons, that are now providing Technical Support to the Israeli Government are on notice that you are, if you continue, you may yourselves be involved in criminal wrong doing. The General Assembly can ask the icj for immediate recommendation, there is universal jurisdiction in many countries in this world, claims can be brought, theyve been started already in south africa, which which says similar to the icc to the extent that they have the power to issue arrest warrants based upon probable cause, red notices are set with interpol in states themselves, for example, in the United States, there can be an effort, there should be lobbying and political effort to impose the the arms export control lack with freeze funding and weapons for israel, there are Domestic Jurisdiction issues where if im palestinian, and i have Palestinian American or palestinian who happens to be in the United States right now, who has family, businesses, homes, etc. That have been destroyed, who have been executed, that have been that been. Victimized by war crimes, they can attempt to bring domestic actions and domestic courts under us law. Theres an issue of whats called extrateritoriality, which has to do with the ability of us courts to reach out for activity and conduct overseas directed at you, but keep in mind the us has had more than few examples over the years of Palestinian America citizens including fame journalists that have been executed by israel and the department of justice. Has done nothing in the United States, so again theres that double standard, so there there is ability to move the icc to bring an advisory opinion action, the International Court of jurisdiction of justice for universal jurisdictions to file arrest warrants for netanyahu and other leaders of the military, to begin to identify businesses, and we know there have been lawsuits in the United States that have gone after tax exempt organizations that provide money illegally that are tax exempt to so called settlements in the occupied west bank in the palestinian territories, so there is a combination of actions which can be brought domestically and internationally, which can be saying to israel enough, but at this point 20,000 palestinians lost their lives, almost all of them civilians, 60 of them children, 75 of gaza is in runes, million and a half people have have been displaced, no food, no. No electricity, no medical attention, um, who knows what viruses and illnesses and plagues are going to fall, but again, this is not inadvert, this is, this is determined effort, designed plan that israel has been waiting to unleash and it has. Yeah, its its absolutely unbelievable mind boggling what is taking place and how everyone is watching it. Mean, based on this international rulesbased community that that exists right now, do you think that this same community then will actually play role in stopping this genocide . Im not waiting for the World Community to all of sudden grow principle injustice and independence and and and to move on behalf of a targeted people, if for that you will be generations away, but i am optimistic that the combination of movement at the icc, movement at universal juris. Or anyone with this is is going to step in a until after israel has been able to accomplish the next step of its designed to do, but i think the reach and theyre not going to step in out of principle or out of purpose or out of passion or out of humanity, but its its going to reach point where politically its its boomeranging back against them and thats when theyre going to step in, but meanwhile. The tanks are rolling into the south and theres no defense, and theres hundreds, if not thousands of Palestinian Civilians again being slaughtered every day. Um, there are variables, and im not suggesting or proposing that hisbollah or syria or anyone else can see their involvement or expanded, but thats an issue using the old anect of the coll