Interesting research because it was a very long research. You started 970. 00 and there were wiring many dimensions. Im trying to be after the present time, but i know that other research is in a Different Countries in the west that they said, basically this one results. So its not only the foster but actually everywhere in western countries, there is this kind of resolves like 9 man on 10 and maybe nowadays 767, we went over 10 years ago on consumer. So i dont know hawks disrespected well, and just the object of many jokes about the temperament of the finish. Boy, here in russia, in your book, you show very elegantly how for the one from your somewhat, the latest fascination to a mass nominal, i think found was 50 years for a starting day legalize ation. In denmark, im done in the United States in the 19 seventys, and i was surprised to learn that the collapse of the soviet union in the country where i was born and also needed a major contribution to the industry in what way. Well formed, developed for many or lets say for a 100 years probably in a very nice style project accessible by few people in the taking the western countries. Like you mentioned that by the end of the sixties and the beginning of the seventys born or production and distribution was allowed by goals in some countries starting with denmark in the us down front seat of the many other countries. So my book is about mass form, mostly to the period of the last few years, and especially dedicated to 24 men heterosexual men. This is important to say the phenomenon is very wide nowadays. So i tried to focus on what is still the mainstream for an hour and during the seventys and the former was a kind of side, the industry to film industry. And actually there were unions in many countries and actors, movies they were trying to structure their work as any other work. But when so with the union collapse, there was a massive amounts of women most of all of years and women basically we need to do anything to earn some money. Which of course, into the western world. So to say, and these change completely the landscape for an industry because it went towards a more general, anybody with a camera could feel my new something and then the internet would be more so during the ninetys. So basically these 2 factors together created a new landscape where all the unions and also the rules of the previous to see were swept away by using, you know, so yes, the coming from especially you rose on the and russia axis. So to say change the landscape, correct me if im wrong, but from what i heard you say in other engineers, its not just about the the nature of work and how actress is paid and how theyre protected. But also about the style should have been the aim of the product itself because i heard you say before the back in the seventys and eightys. It was much more about the neutral pleasure, but damage shifted to formal, violent and dominating kind of genre. Do you attribute that to a cultural influx of women from performance of the union, or is it just the, the nature of time itself, or the nature of male sexuality that has changed the word of arm . This is a very interesting question. Well, i would say that the the availability of women willing to do anything went well together with the, with the increasing theyre going towards the extreme that was already present in the seventys in ages. But it was more somehow regulated, especially in the seventys since the previous decade. The 64. 00 in the west would be changes social changes. There was movements and movements. So in that moment, the fact that was representing say, try me as a joy, fool and disconnected from procreation. As a pleasure for women, it was a new thing element in that moment. So it was already extreme doing the seventys name is. I mean, we can find the extreme back to them too, but there was fear was much different from the current form, which has been much about using a woman for me. A pleasure. I wouldnt dare to say that there was a cultural contribution from the side of the women. I think patriot was already there. And the idea that actually we could exploit all these women. We need to do anything just the markets advantage. So now one of the essential ideas in your book is that technological inventions, in your demonstrate, the whole point is a logical intervention. Im not national tools, they dont just satisfy me when they form and shape them. Sometimes with pretty malicious, insidious motives. I wonder how do you, yourself try to maintain, if not an autonomy youve done some degree of no dependency on, on those technological tools, forums and anything out there. Why is interest in question . In a way human beings have always be Technology Goes on the very 1st time when somebody created the container to bring the water from the reader to the cavern, which already baffled technology. Coming you mention something out of the nature, but definitely the last 100 years saw dramatic change in our landscape to the point that technology according to the us that there was a lot in the book became the subject of history and actually use a premium we as human beings are on the co, historical to technology. So definitely will even if acknowledged a word that is just one of the manual objects technology. But all of this objects that surround us. And that is not only a tool in our hands and depends on how we use it. Bad. This is are kind of nice for, according to anders t. E claims that actually we should be worried about how Technology Use us. Which is the reverse perspective, where Technology Actually can change deeply our, even our emotions and the way we are in the world. Its a fact that technology is the current word. So i dont think that we can, we can imagine were without it, its a very, very difficult processed balance. Our relationship with technology within that their knowledge are worth. I think that the starting point is to question seriously our technology, the landscape. And i, i mean, i try to do is even use for the topic is much wider than for your master under the german industrial for lots of our who in many ways was ahead of his time foretelling the dangers of being inflamed by technology so much so that his 2nd book of athletes was titled the app lessons, man. I know that you dont like judging moralizing in any way, but do you think by and large, 40 years after the publication of this book we have come to, you dont be in for kind of being cruel and that people are not all of them, but by and large losing touch, not only with the free period in them or but also the bodies because when you look at both these fear this and just embodied in the same time as a trans union of all without union. Yes. Yes. Youre right. Yeah. I personally, i think the word, the side by now present i really wonder how he would ever consider the current at each. And its more, for example, on because many sections were based on radio and g. Its pretty amazing. He was foreseeing software. Nothing is really much more talking about the current board, although he died. I think he, agents. So before the engine. Yeah, i do believe that the soap in word is, is present in this moment. I know that there are many other seems, theres that much more positive about technology. And there is just, lets say the normal development of human consciousness are going towards that. I am closer to this worries. So to say. And i am worried that the more well interestingly that despite human beings so much ahead of his time, he is not widely published in english. You know that, that is, you know, what, we usually think of the western world as they and the driver of the 3rd and the 4th Industrial Revolution. And yet they are very few translations of his work that mostly on when i mature in nature, i wonder if that is just an unfortunate happenstance to you, or if you think its that are a form of deliberate and intellectual ostracizing. Yeah, well as an analyst its hard enough to see that there is a mean piece regression on this work issue to this or a finally published this i found out this year there is a big work. I think its published in america around this war works in general. Its some 500 pages book. So they have now finally translated to something and spoken to him. Its interesting because his 1st born was published, the end of the 2nd world war 48. I think the 2nd one, the eightys or 99, a sam, i could find a translation and it was already existing since the sixtys but in the world. So to say its funny, last year maybe august, so i see it as a little bit of a regression because it was a very critical voice, especially for him. And he was also contemporary of young and i think union ideas are also seeing a bit of a revival. So maybe its a synchronistic around it in a way that were coming back to prominence anyway. Do we have to take a very short break right now . Well be back in just a few moments they can. Ah, oh a a ah welcome back to well, the point that georgia 3 article, a clinical psychologist from finland and author of law god assist a kaleidoscope on foreign georgia before the briefly touched on this very central idea in your book as well as in the work of good there on theres that now logical inventions, im not natural tools, they not only satisfy our needs but also shape and foster them. And sometimes they even create our needs. And you provide a very interesting example of coca cola as something that for many people essentially managed to hijack that basic need for 30 stand by claiming to satisfy it actually increases it. And i think thats a very common thing within the big industry as well as within the big Pharma Industry because theyre very, a lot of very of noxious teenage. Is that if you look at the most prevalent disease is metabolic disease, right now the diabetes dementia, a, b, c, many of them would be traced. People are being hooked on certain foods or didnt happen. And i think one is that perhaps we creating the same dynamic and certain populations. It could be very helpful to sound very imaginative to some but in many people, it also creates a dixon and i understand its a very complex question. I understand you dont like passing judgments, but where do you think we should start in terms of both assigning responsibility . Because you know how budgets are something that we are all concerned about . It is a public good and also helping people develop a helpful and sort of mutually respectful relationship with technology and the new interventions and the industries that produce them. Yes, a require a lot of time for you to reflect on where shes ok. Well, i would say to taking the example corner and the name of my book also to show different sides of it, which is something that i didnt find in many books. I called the book a kaleidoscope or video that every chapter should have been a color. And all the colors together, they were forming a school so that the reader can turn the book so to say and see maybe some configurations or others. I start from this in order to reply to your question. When a phenomenon is very complex or is having the ability to see many colors and, and embrace this complexity is the 1st step we have to do before doing what you are asking. The same about Technology Technology is a very complex topic. And why is lots of reflections and so just a deepening here many aspects before we, we can decide something about what can we do in order not to be just addicted. So i thought it was me see many books or was this complexity. They were only focusing on some aspects, for example, addiction or logical perversion. But form is a very complex object that actually is just a good symbol, many other phenomena of our work. So what you asked the requires 1st of all to know much better and are so much deeper level. And then we can try to understand what can we do about it . Well, we can invite our years to get your book to reflect on it, but i can tell you from a personal perspective, thats one of the very simple but for some reason, during high school id for me was that me not just leave it in our bodies but we are the body and the desiring bodies demonstrates it in a, in a very interesting way. And there is actually, i think, a huge difference in perceiving yourself as living in the body. Im actually imagining yourself that same body. Can you, can you speak about that a little bit . Yes, this is, this is an important for me to because for, for example, and experience Technology Objects to a screen basically where these are videos or pictures of how it acknowledged g invites kind of splits with the bobby b. Because we look at some checks and search performance. And the only senses that we are using in that moment are b sides and hearing because there is but actually sex as a real experience, as an important experience, it would be much more involving the others, like a smell and most of all very interesting how, like you said before, these are kind of mutation of opposites, like what is a sexual thing. But actually it doesnt have anything to do with the sexual, embody experience because were just sitting in front of the screen. Theres nothing a physical there. There are some physical things, i mean my only physical people, not just watch they, i think use that imagination. And sometimes that happens to all of that. I mean, there is not the an embodied experience with the people are shouts, but its not the same thing as a real sexual. You can actually ask you about them because i think this is a fascinating question on sexuality is one of the sort of 5 basic things thats calling and identified. And i think more than others, it requires the presence of the other, you know, and unions like to talk about the, the benefits of living at imagination. But i will perhaps downsize to that as a clinical psychologist. What are some of the dangers of living out too much of your sexuality in this imaginary reality . Yes. Oh yeah, this is also very important to i believe that the union but all of the 2nd i need to work. Lets say its very much being on the verbal side and we can to not to give too much attention to the body, but there are movements so to say in the words that are trying to improve the body level much more. And there are very interesting crossovers between, for example, you theory and Authentic Movement or Dance Therapy and other things, the more the body. So yeah me, there is always to disconnect from the physical and body experience. There is the need to keep polarity together like the imagination, but also the, the body lever. So important to technology object, the vice, it just, cleats from the body experience in a way. And this is one example. I mean, this is happening your lot with technology that we can disconnect from the body. We can disconnect from the emotions. We can this one that even from ethics because we just watch a video with our responsibility. Whats going on in that you maybe some violence video or something at the speaker was i think we would, we would never do reality. Still we are enjoying something which is violent. So theres a lot of questions that are poor by these things, and definitely try to reconnect to body and mind much more also in the union. The theory put out the wrong because if i look at the data, despite these very wide availability of the people around the developed world, i have a less tax. Theyre having later in life. Its also less creative, not only because of their birth control, but also because of b precipitously falling prone cones. In many of the man, if you step outside the point for a while, what do you think is happening with human sexuality in general . Within the larger view of technology and the 4th Industrial Revolution that were about to enter. Yeah, well, on one hand, there are many signs of crisis like you were mentioning on the other. Im reading so many interesting books that are addressed and to try to be in new ways and very interesting ways. I have a mind, a book called sex research, but canadians, ph. D offers were fema authors. But im reading a lot of books about to try to see and couple relationship and already im already and many new developments also relate and sex. So like you said in the beginning, there are always some opposite phenomena happening at the same time. There is a crisis of the previous way, maybe 6 riley, d prizes investing also the way 6, right . The it has always be 10. And the whole fleet is new. New elements are starting, circulate. He will change the landscape in the future. So i hope that we will have all better stacks and better relationship with them. Yeah. Well, perhaps a better relationship with the reality, which i think is the goal of any psycho logical school. But especially in psychology seem as one of the aim to allow reality. Reality to review is real, godlike magic to me or morals. Since you have the word, goddesses, in the titles, what do they have to do with such base activity as warren . Yeah, i know we have a very short time left, so i tried to make a change about maybe maybe the listener would be curious to see in a more extensive way. I had the, the idea, i would say the hypothesis that the effects are fascination for form should be found also outside the usual pathological explanations is definitely fascinating for the majority of men and women around the world, including another genders. And i believe thats a reducing everything to a g, b to narrowing. So my hypothesis is that actually corner corner, its possible to find some sheens to what are the heroes was connected to the sake of a big topic or you know, the years to say there was a place in a place beyond the bad a place or place of the got the base of the human beings. So in a very strange way, or somehow something has to do with the under certain shade. And i explain it in the book, but its really along their topic now. And so the reason i say that the form that there is some hint to the secret that actually is fascinating because believe that the soccer eyes were a statement. That is, dad can say that the secret has disappeared as a you know, any union of what they have replied to you. That what kind of a, whether hes called the not the, the guys are still present its, its a matter of seeing and perceiving them and having a right relationship with them to, to have to leave it there. I wish i could have more time to discuss. Fascinating book and i invite our readers to, to get it that you have an advantage over russians. I think its Still Available around the world on amazon. So to take a chance on that. Thank you very much with this possibility to talk and thank you. What you hope to hear again next week . All the fight . Ah. With me ah. Ah ah yes, motion of your money, i mean you flee a little boy boy, if youll be with the my listen look and you live muscles. If you look on the initial be one of club, not significant dealer post on zillow while diaz can used to put value a new one who did origin. But he also story saddam results. Louis a similar to like going to thought that ive only been just to submit a what i see the student busseys though group you motivation says use a gumbo sub ah, needs to