Through algeria, down into mali and there is a worry that this could become another afghanistan. Rose and for analysis of algeria and mali we turn to max boot, Jennifer Cook, and peter pham. The ramification of what happened in algeria and the strike against the gas installation there and the hostages being taken there really opens this up and internationalizes it with a number of year mean citizens taking u. S. Citizens and japanese as well. So the events of this last week, the french incursion, the islamists move south and the taking of the gas installation in algeria really puts a whole dramatic new spin on this and adds momentum to the whole problem. Rose we conclude this evening with jeff bridges the actor and Bernie Glassman, their new book is called the dude and the zen master well, one day bernie says to me, by the way, you know that in the buddhist circles the dude is considered a zen master. I said what are you talking about, man. He said oh yeah. I said come on, you know. You know, the Cohen Brothers never mentioned anything about you know, any kind of spirituality or zen or anything. And he says there you go, the. Rose algeria, mali, the dude and the zen master. When we continue. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose al gerian forces launched a dramatic raid on a desert gas plant earlier today this came after militants reportedly linked to al qaeda took the facility hostage on wednesday. The charge released several hundred algerians but held dozens of Foreign Workers including United States citizens. There is conflicting information about the algerian raid and there is no confirmation on how many cappers and hostages were killed. The milton reportedly demanded an end to french him tear activities in mali in return for the hostages. The situation in mali is also critical. On friday last week france launched an area Bombing Campaign against rebels with ties to al qaedament since then a ground force has engaged in combat with rebels trying to stop their advance to malis capital. It remains unclear what support will be offered by the United States. Secretary of state Hillary Clinton addressed the situation earlier today in a joint press conference she had with the president of somalia. Sheikh mohammed. Now let me say the situation is very fluid. Its in a remote area of al geria near the libyan border. The security of our americans who are held hostage is our highest priority but of course we care deeply about the other algerian and foreign hostages as well. And because of the fluidity and the fact that there is a lot of planning going on, i can to the give you any further details at this time about the Current Situation on the ground. But i can say that more broadly what we are seeing in mali n algeria reflects the broader strategic challenge, first and foremost for the countries in north africa, and for the United States and the broader international community. Rose joining me from washington Margaret Brennan state Department Correspondent for cbs news. Welcome. Good to see you, charlie. Tell me more about the attitude at the state department about alger ya, the link with mali and what might be coming. I think it was very interesting to hear Hillary Clinton there put mali, algeria and al qaeda quickly in that same paragraph. Linking those concepts because the state department has been concerned as she has been in pushing algeria to take a more active role in trying to control al qaeda. Because they have been building out what is feared to be a command and control center within northern mali. That is to say there are weapons coming from libya, through algeria, down into mali, and there is a worry that this could become another afghanistan that is why she was in algeria at the end of october and it is why the u. S. State department and Foreign Policy advisors have been very concerned about the threat. They say yes, it should be an african response. Its an african issue but the u. S. Has interest at stake here. Rose what is the debate maybe within state, within the white house, within the Defense Department about american options . Well, american options are limited by american law right now. Because u. S. Law pro ibt hads assisting a government or a military that came to power through a coup. And right now the malian government that we are trying to support in their efforts to control the rebels and to control the al qaeda and islamic militants in mali came to power through coup. So we cant provide them direct assistance. So u. S. Law prohibits that. Were finding work arounds what that mean as secretary clinton laid out today is that by this weekend there will be military trainers in the area to train african militaries to go into mali, well be paying for that. We will be helping to fund the airlift to bring in a french battalion. There will be about 600 troops coming in with tanks to mali. So there are work arounds but there are restrictions that prevent the u. S. Military from getting directly involved in mali. What can we do to support the french . The french have asked the United States for a number of things. The mallian government has also asked the United States for a number of things. Right now the u. S. Is agreeing to provide intelligence. We do have an unmanned drone that was locate odd over the incident in algeria. Thats under way in that eastern part today. We, in mali are helping to airlift the french in. Were helping to fund a lot of these projects. Were also giving malaria drugs, gps, kevlar vest, helmets to african militaries to go in to intervene. So thats what we are doing on that end. And the French Military can work alongside those african militaries. They dont have the same laws restricting their Movement Like we do here. So were providing a lot of information to them. You mentioned the fact that the secretary had been to africa and had some exploratory meetings there. Did they see this coming . Well, the secretary has had africa and particularly taking on al qaeda in east africa as a clear priority for some time. This challenge of taking on al qaeda in mali has really come to the foreearlier this year, earlier in the fall. All of this really boiled up after the fall of mo mar qaddafi in libia. I know we are throwing a lot of countries in here. But it was after you saw some of the nationals who had been in libya on the payroll of mo mar qaddafi as his mercenaries lost their jobs when he fell out of power. And they came back into northern mali. And thats shortly thereafter within six months of that you saw the government fall, you saw a coup and its really just within that past year and a half that it has come to the radar within the state department and for the secretary of state. But she was trying to push algeria to get more directly involved in controlling mali. They dont want the u. S. At the forefront of this. They dont want to commit real u. S. Military troops nor can they. And so what does the hostage taking and killing in algeria, how does this influence choices and actions in mali . Well, secretary of state Hillary Clinton said today that they are advising, you know, the u. S. Citizens, businesses to really take care in terms of reviewing the security procedures. So you can say that this incident in algeria has now rationed concern about the security interest of americans and werners throughout north africa. That has changed things tremendously. But the u. S. Beyond that is trying to review security as well as some of its facilities and see if they are prepared. There was a story today suggesting that some people in the state department, some people at defense were making the argument that mali was not in our was not a threat to Americas National security and that therefore we should go very carefully in terms of looking at what we do. There has been a debate about that. There has been a debate about how real the al qaeda and the aqim threat truly is to western or u. S. Interests. Up until this point you hadnt really seen a qim attack western interests other than their linkage to that attack on the u. S. Consul and mission in benghazi that killed the u. S. Ambassador there. So within that context, aqim, the situation in mali have been some what contained. Its the potential of it becoming another launch pad for terrorism throughout the region that has people scared and pushing for more action. But that said, up until this point, aqim has been a huge fundraiser for itself through kidnapping for ransom. Theyve made more than 30 Million Euros after kidnapping french citizens because the french will pay for the nationals to come back. Up until this point, they hadnt taken an american hostage and now they have at least three. So they would view perhaps mali as the next afghanistan or having the possibility of being the next afghanistan before 9 11 when in fact it was a haven for al qaeda. There are parallels there because in some ways, you know as one u. S. Official said to me half jokingly its the worlds worst neighborhood. You have islamic extrialists, you have al qaeda through aqim, you have drug traffickers up there in the north of mali. And you have just rebels who want some independence to split the country in two. So in that mix you have that worry that you can create within the chaos a command and control center. Like what you saw al qaeda do through the taliban in afghanistan. So thats the fear that it can become a launch pad. Rose on another matter finally, when dow expect the secretary of state to testify about ben gazee ben gaddee . Secretary clinton will testify on capitol hill about benghazi the 23rd. So that will be shortly after the inauguration on monday. She will speak before the Senate ForeignRelations Committee and also answer questions from the House Foreign Affairs committee and they will be open. The public will be able to listen that testimony from her. Dow have a sense they are anxious to do this because they want to get out front and take the opportunity to defend those things that have grown occupy around the benghazi, the political football it became . It really has become a political footballment benghazi became in some ways a rorschach test for where you stand politically in washington. Secretary clinton and her advisors felt it was necessary for them to wait for her to go to the hill until they had that review board that looked into the investigation in benghazi and said where they failedment because she wants this testimony to be focused on what happens next and how they respond rather than who said what what when which was the political football. Is it likely to be her last appearance before a Congressional Committee . It is likely to be her last appearance because senator kerry, of course, his hearing is set for the 24th, day after. So hes going to be up there oddicians for her job and he is believed to be a shoein in terms of confirmation. Rose Margaret Brennan, thank you so much. Pleased to you have here. Come back often. Thank you. Good to be here. Our coverage of the events in algeria and mali continue with a distinguished panel of guests. Joining me from washingtonpa c n foreign relationment his new book is called invisible arm armies a peter pharm, director of the Africa Center of the Islamic Council and Jennifer Cook director of the Africa Program at the centre for strategic and international studies. I am pleased to have them all here. Max give me a sense of what you know about where we are at this moment . I think charlie we are in a very early stages of what could be a very protracted insurgency campaign. One of the things that i did in the course of doing the research for my new book is a calculated the average length of an insurgency since 1945. And the average length is nearly 10 years. The french just got in last week and so we have a long way to run. I think what we have essentially seen is that the french have been able to blunt the advice of the islamist insurgents who have taken control of northern mali, the french first use their strikes and now they have some troops on the ground actually directly battling the rebels. And theres no question that the french can stop the advancement but to actually roll back the insurgents and to gain control of the territory which they currently control is going to be a very difficult protracted undertaking which will require more than the few hundred troops that the french have currently dispatched to mali. Theyre going to need a lot of help including from local mali forces and west African Peacekeeping forces. Now unfortunately, you know, the mallian forces have shown themselves to be utterly decrepit, corrupt, incompetent and the west kavr African Peacekeeping forces are probably to the going to be a lot better. So they are going to need a lot of buttress, and not just from french. I think it in the interest of the United States, britain and other western powers to aid these forces on the ground, les these islamist insurgents gain control of mali and turn it into a if you base for international terrorism. Rose a kind of new afghanistan. Thats the danger, that is certainly what they would like to see and in fact, guess what, were seeing veterans of the afghan war who are popping up. These are transnational groups such as al qaeda and the islamic magazinereb and others which might not only in mali were seeing them now fighting in algeria. This is a transnational problem and it will require a transfat response. Rose Jennifer Cook help me understand what is at stake here, what is the National Interest on the part of the United States but generally, what is the threat to africa if mali is not being able if they are not able to thwart an islamist take over. Well, al qaeda and the islamic mugreb and other Islamist Groups up in the north of mali for some time have been conducting hostage for ransom operations, drug trafficking, cigarette smuggling and occasional attacks on regional targets outside malis borders. What has happened with the collapse of the state in the capital of mali and the fusion of all these groups into a loose collection and takeover of the north they now control the three big key cities in the north of mali, the fear is that they fortify themselves in those positions. They entrench themselves, they become a magnet and a Training Ground and a safe haven for terrorists and criminal networks from across africa and even as mr. Boot said from beyond. And that from that position they can launch attacks against europe, against bigger targets within africa. And possibly in some in some eventuality, against the u. S. Now the the ramifications of what happened in algeria and the strike against the gas installation there and the hostages being taken there really opens this up and internationalizes it with a number of european citizens taking u. S. Citizens and japanese as well. So the events of this last week, the french incursion, the islamists move south and the taking of the gas installation in algeria really puts a whole dramatic new spin on this and adds momentum to the wol problem. Rose now what is the connection with the algerian hostage taking . Well, the thought is that, and everythings a bit unclear at this moment, but they have said that it is in retaliation for the algerians allowing france to use their airspace in the mali intervention. And the thought is that one of the leaders of a Splinter Group of aqim, has ordered his followers to conduct this hostage taking. Again a lot of this is fairly unclear. I think they are happening very quickly there. It is not clear how direct the orders are. How direct the command and control within aqim and these various groups is. But that is what they are saying, that this is a retaliation for the french intervention. They want the french out and against algeria for allowing the french to use their airspace. Peter, how did we get here . We got here because for a number of years we have been ignoring the vast ungoverned spaces of the sahara, ignoring the fact that al qaeda and islamic magreb, engaging in criminal activities and putting a way a great deal of money, millions of dollars actually from kidnapping for ransom, from the drug trade and contraband and what we had was a perfect storm when the overthrow of the qaddafi regime freed up experienced fighters, mercenaries who were available for other conflicts, weapons flowed and they had the al qaeda and islamic magreb and other groups had the money, the wherewithal and the desire to sweep those things up and then the mallian state was far more brittle and weak than we had given it credence to be. And as a result t all came together and in a space of days last spring in march malis government was overthrown and the islamists seized control of an area roughly the size of texas. If the french had not come in would the french coming in certainly one needed to contain this threat. The problem was when the french came in they didnt come in as he was saying sufficient force to actually turn back these islamist insurgents. They managed to block them in the town of koma in the middle area of mali but all they did was swing to the right and seize a town which is only about 200 miles north of the capital. It is now a game, weve seen this before in other insurgency situations of whack the mole. Rose where will the support for those who overthrew the government come from . Well, they have a lot of funds of their own at this point. This is an amalgamation of various groups. The first group to leave the takeover in northern mal