Is over. And you know, it has a subtle affect on you rses yeah. And i think thats what i said to all of them. I said when we shoot this thing, lets put ourselve in there. Lets let us show what that feels like in a sense. Rose Dustin Hoffman for the hour next. Funding for charlie rose was provided by the following captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Dustin hoffman is here, he has been acting for more than 50 years. In 1980 he won an oscar for his role as a divorced man seeking custody of his son in cramer versus cramer. In 1989 he won again for his 1rfpemance as the Raymond Babbit in rainman. Last month he was bonrfedory the kennedy store for his achievement as an actor. Now he is making his direct orial debut. The movie ised calle quartet and here is the trailer. At beechham house for retired musicians, life follows a rhythm all its own. But a new arrival. Look. Welcome to beachham house. The voom a beautiful suite what what we call the b wing. Will change their tune. I know who it is. As large as life and twice as terrifying. Im going to Say Something very rude. You, and you. Poor things, hes having such a hard time. This is a retirement not a retirement house this is the mad house. We have a serious problem. We cant make it the hottest particular in town this house could collapse. We could lose it. We have four of the finest singers in english opera history. I dont think i want to sing with jean again. They were married once but it didnt work out. We were different people then. I have a brilliant idea. I condition remember, what is it . What made you top singing. You must understand i was someone once. Why do you persist in slurping with me. Older man, vintage wine, seasoned wood. This is the first time weve seen each other if god knows how many years. 97. Is it really that long. Everybody thinks that opera and rap are two different things. Its just talking for us and for you its just the way that you sing. Their love of life sin affectcious. They inspire us. Its not too late. Until he sings. I think i possibly am although i find it very difficult to tell the difference at this age. Rose im pleased to have Dustin Hoffman back at this table. Welcome. Thank you, charlie. Rose i saw you at the Kennedy Center longers, robert demiro de niro gave you this wonderful introduction. A big honor. Well, you know, i was not, they dont tell how is going to speak there. I know, i thought you had selected and then i said no, its not the honoree that selected. They select who speaks. And they dont tell you. And i didnt know i was going to be first up. So i have already braced myself for the enormity of the occasion. And i love that they let me take 16 members of my family including two grandchildren. And we met the president and the first lady and were sitting down. I say im going to be okay am i will sit through this, sitting next to the first lady and they say ladies and gentlemen, Robert De Niro and he comes out. I say i wonder what he i said yes, and im first up and he starts. And i have known him for years and he starts talking about me in ways that hes never done before. And i was gone. And i started oh really. Because we dont talk, we dont talk actor talk to each other, you know, hes a lovely man. But he captured you, didnt he. Yes, he did. Why did it take you so long . To direct . To direct . You know, i did direct a thing in 77 called straight time. But you fired yourself. Yes, i did. And i made a mistake. In firing yourself or hiring yourself. Maybe both. And i had cast it, i cast the crew and actors. I worked with the writer who was an exconvict. Had done a lot of research, loved the project. It was about recidivism. And i done know what happened. I think i mean you develop projects but when you are, you know, a celebrity you get, you know, first choice of scripts, usually. So they would be sorry they would be coming in and then would you put what you were working on aside and do the job, then come back and try to remember where you were. And i think that you think youve got all the time in the world. And that at a certain point you realize the game is rigged. There is an end game. Yes. And i think thats why. Really you began to think about if i dont do it now i will never do it. Thats what happened on this occasion. How did you find this particular project. I did a film called last chance harvey. You and emma thompson. They was wonderful. My god, shes lovely. Rose a small fill testimony that had imagine eck. Thank you. And by the way maggie smith,. They dont really care, they are rehearsing all day long, they are doing a two shot and they say i dont think theyre going to cover this. You know, come on out and i said, you know, and theyre wonderful that way but anyway did that film. The cinematographer was john deboarman and we would talk shots during the movies. You sound like you should be directingment and i said find me something. Because it is called show business. And even if you are, you know, famous as an actor for years, they dont send you scripts as a director until youve proven yourself. So i, very rarely got, d unless they needed you as a star okay well let you direct. So what happened with this, the cinematography worked on the film you and empty emma thompson. You said i would like to look for something, he knew the producer. He worked for the producer when he worked, two directors had been with this project quartet. They fell out. That is the only way i get offered somethingness. Rose somebody gets fired. Two people get fired. So so the day before i catch the plane to am could back to los angeles from london he calls mement and he says ive got a script. And he sent it and i read it on the airplane. And it moved me but i would have. Rose moved you, you were crying. Your poor wife looked at you and says why are you crying. Were you on that plane. How do you know that . Its true. I started crying. Rose you said you got to read this. And she read it. Rose and so what was it about this story . Tell us what the story is about and then what was it about this story. Well, there is a documentary worth seeing called toscas kiss. And casa verde exists to this day in milan. Rose a place like this. Yesment and this is what sir Ronald Harwood modelled, in a sense this is what inspired the film he wrote was off of this casa verde, was very wealthy, toward the end of its life he built a mansion for himself and stipulated in his will that when he dieds, all of these Opera Singers and musicians that he had worked with, all his life who at one point had layed lascala who had been celebrated now couldnt pay the rent. He said i want them to have a home. And thats that got me, because well for the same reason i guess it gets me about athletes that they have such a small shelf life to be able, you know, at 36 theyre old already. And to have that kind of talent. And to have to suddenly realize that no, youre over the hill so to speak. But the passion is still there. And the desire is still there. I think recently not too long ago i read about an interview that well, an article or something but that Placido Domingo had done some concert or opera in new york. And his wife said to him afterwards thats the last time you going to be a tennor. Youre a bar i tone from now on. And he laughed longer than most. Ive asked people like and people often think its because of the money. Its never because of the money. Its most often because its what they know and do and what they love. Its where the passion is. Yes. And so they try to extend because that makes them happy. They love everything about it. They love the applause. They love, you know, the idea of doing the thing. But in the end, its hard to let go. Well, you know, mortality is kind of the cloud that hangs over the film. And they fight against it. And i have always felt that when im working youre never going to die. As long as are you working the whole idea of mortality, of being temporary doesnt exist. You are living in a timeless world when you work. When you decided to do this and so they get to you do the film. The casti had been halfway there. Yes. And maggie which was a god send, that is a god send. Yes, Tom Courtenay was in. Yes. Rose albert fini was in. Yes. Rose and then decided no to the. He was not up to it physically. And i cast Billy Connolly. Rose who is younger than the character. But you thought he would be right. Well, he never ceased telling us that he wasnt 70 yet. The rest of us were all in our 70s. With a scottish accent, im only 69. Rose but you thought coplay 70. Yes. Yes. With help from lighting. Rose what did you think you could bring to this movie . After i saw toscas kiss about real Opera Singers retired, about real i hate that word is so repugnant. Rose retirement. Yeah, im retired. Im a retired opera singer. And musicians t hit me. I turned to the cinematographer and i said we have to get the real thing. We have to get real Opera Singers, retired and real retired musicians. And once i got the okay to do that i felt that we had a movie. We had a shot because we were going to integrate these stars, maggie smith, pauline collins, Billy Connolly, Tom Courtenay where the real thing. And what we didnt expect is that no these people were at the top of their game at one time, had played places like la scala and at the end we show credits and i wanted to show what they had done. And no one had rung their phone in over 30 years. So these are people in their 70s, 80s and 90s that are suddenly hired after being dismissed by the culture in a sense. Rose and that is all they know how to do. Yes. And they show up every day at 6 00 in the morning, in rather cold weather w such drive and such passion, in a sense the movie was about the movie. And it was not a job for anyone in front or behind the camera. It really was a spiritual journey for us to be with these people. Rose and they informed the way you saw the whole scene. But you also had things you wanted to say about growing older too, did you not. How did you know. What little bird told you. I think you do your best work when it somehow, well, olivia, when i worked with him said everything dow should be odd owe biographical. And i have never forgotten that. Rose the marathon man. Yes. And i, you know, it was true of all of us it was true of me, of maggie smith, of Tom Courtenay, we were stars, very and it was with albert finny. We were stars early on. We have all been stars in a sense for 45, 50 years. And once that happened, we got the pick of the crop. Right. And then suddenly you get into your 40s. Still get some, in your 50s, less, suddenly are you getting supporting actor. Then youre in your 60s. Came ro. I died before the first act is over. And you know t has a subtle effect on you. Yeah. And i think thats what i said to all of them. I said when we shoot this thing lets put ourselve in there. Lets let us show what that feels like in a sense. You have said before that the body gets less powerful saying this in a nice way. Compromise. Compromise is a better way. But the spirit doesnt and the spirit can grow. Yes. Yes, it can. Because, and it should. Because suddenly i think like anything, when you see the end of the tunnel, either you stagnate and get bitter or whatever, or which is probably the worst thing you can do with your health. I believe people who are ackers will live longer. Because i think once you stop and you dont function and you give in, you know, then you simply accelerate the end. Yes. I was sensitive to articles, newspaper things, i read while i was making the film. The best one was this guy that was being interviewed in london. He had participated in a triathlon which is what swimming, bicycling. Rose running. 94. Yeah. And the question they asked him was are you going to do this again. And he says yes, im going to keep doing it until i get old. And i have never forgotten that. What did you bring to this because of the remarkable career you had in acting it to directing. What did that give new. Well, i think some of the best directors were actors, ben a flect, warren beatty, i mean you know t doesnt hurt. But what does it give you. Well, this is a long answer. Because this is a hundredyearold art form give or take. In fact, i think im almost as old as sound, you know, really, because i was born in 37 and i think sound came in around 29 or 30. And its about the machine, unfortunately, is that you go to work and the clock is ticking and its like a train coming to run you over and the film is like a canvas on a railroad track. And the closer it gets, and so just before the train hits you pull, and thats your days work and ultimately your film. And the problem with it is that every one behind the camera, the cinematographer, the costume director, the production designer, the location manager, the casting director, the director, the writer, they have what is called pre, preproduction and that is called preproduction. And these are months and months and months of time to keep making mistakes, to fail and then discard what they have until they arrive at what they want. And then we start shooting. The actors have not been a part of this process. In plays you get to rehearse, here, no, so are you in your camper, okay, were ready for you. You come out and that 150 people that have been exposed to the material for months and months and months want to you get it within about 10 minutes. And i think what i brought to it is to say to the production people were going have to accommodate to allow these actors, well beckett said fail, fail, fail better. Rose get better every time you fail. Yes, and to give them that time. And i think that is the best thing you can give an actor. Rose i think maggie smith said that too, why she appreciated what you were able to do for her. Is it difficult to direct actors that are that good, though. I mean are you uncomfortable in any way saying this is the way to do it. This is what i want from you . No, because im its one of the things i think i learned over, well, you said 50 years, is that there is no way to do a scene. Theres five different directors that would direct the same script differently and maybe all wonderfulfully there are five Different Actors that would play each the particular part differently. And i think that when you see a scene, as the director its your obligation to know what the emotional points are and what the narrative things you have to hit. But that gives you a lot of latitude. And i think its the directors job to manipulate the ackers so that they dont even realize it. I always think its like a kid learning how to walk. They pretend like they want to run away from you. But youre just there in case they fall. Just to hold them up a little bit. And i think that actors, once that pressure is taken off of them. I maintain, i do have a lot of opinions over 50 years, im sorry but all those parentheticals and scripts, the actor breaks down soning. The actor, or the character. The character you know hysterically starts, you know, laughing. The character goes crazy, and you know, and is furious. Take it out. Take it out, take it out. Dont let the actor ever see it because all dow as an actor thinking oh god whats tomorrow, thursday, i have to son uncontrollably for ten hour os. They dont need to know it. And you can find ways of getting those beats from them without them being aware, being aware, if that makes sense. If you are a director and a producer what you want the acker to do, you hire an factor because you think they bring something special. That you dont even have. I mean the best directors i think are in awe of actors. And they like them. Exactly. Yes. And half of them like hitchcock dont like actors and they can be great directors. Indeed. I always thought a sign as what when you come on the set is out of the side of the eye you look at the director and he is watching the scene and he is miming every word of every person in the scene. Before he came on he knows the way it should sound. He knows the way if should be underlined. And what you are saying is yes, let the actor surprise you and take it beyond where you thought it should go. Why did mike nichols choose you . Long answer or short answer. Long answer. I mean you obviously had talent but why did he choose you . Because redford was sort of the model if you listened to the description of what benjamin was. Its in the book. Yes. Six feet, blond hair, blue eyes, member of the track team, debating squad. None of that is you. None, none, none. Boston, program im, you know. I think he tested redford. He tested a lot of people over a period of a year and a half or something. And he was scraping the bottom of the barrel by the time he got to me. I dont think he knew anything about me. People said i was in a playoff broadway that got very good reviews. And i dont think he saw it i think he was told about it. So he sent it to me to read. And i read the script. And then i went and got the book and i read the book. And i had a panic attack. I thought why are they trying to ruin my career, which is just beginning now. You know because im starting to get parts, character parts, you know, and here is a leading man. And i turned down the audition. I was in new york off broadway,s auditions were if los angeles. And when he heard that this unknown act certificate turning down the audition, he called me up. And he talked me into doing it. Rose what did he say . He says you dont want to do it because and i said because, you know im a character acker but so far, you know, i am not 6 feet, im not blond, you know, and he says did you think it was funny. I said yes, i did think it was funny. He said and you dont want to do it because youre jewish . I said well, that would kind of look underlined if i did it. He said well maybe the character is jewish inside, and that was what made me you know, did the audition. He said later, i dont think too long ago in an interview that he never really understood why he cast me. Rose which is the question i ask you. Yes. And he said, and i didnt know until i read it, he said i think i was casting hoffman because the character was my alter ego. Rose really. Yes. Rose i saw myself. Yes. And he didnt think of himself as attractive. What i do know is a fact is that i finished shooting. I went back to new york to collect unemployment. I made 3,000, i think, put it in the bank, started collecting unemployment. And after the film is edited in los angeles, they start showing it to homes that have screening rooms. Rose that is what they do in hollywood, they show it to their pals. Yes. And they did that. And the producer, larry turman and nichols both in separate articles or interviews years later, i read for the first time, that people came up to them after a screening and said what a great film you would have if you didnt miscast