Transcripts For WHUT Charlie Rose 20131101 : vimarsana.com

WHUT Charlie Rose November 1, 2013

Under president salinas decided to privatize Television Operations there were lots of people that were interested in that. We emerged victorious because we paid way more than the next guy. It turned out that that was our lucky break, because we overpaid so much, we could not be discredited from the process, because you know, nobody knew me or what i stood for. And some guy was thrust into this media which is very public and very political. And there were lots of people who did not want there. Rose why did you pay so much . Well, its an interesting thing, you know. I hired the Bain Consulting to do rose bain. Bain. With this consultation of how much the business was worth and they do this projection to bring it back. This is exactly worth 489 million. Well gee, how is this. They showed me this excel spreadsheet. And that was a long time ago, 20 years ago. They showed me this thing. What are the assumptions here. In year five youre going to have exactly 22 of the share of the market, advertising market. Well what happens instead of 22. 5 i have 30. Overrun it. It was like 3 billion, the price. So you went from a 20 to 30, the price went from 500 to 3 million. When i saw that number, i said gee who knows when youre at five youre going to have 20 or 30 . Im going to bet all my lot on this one. So i put all the money that i had together and ended up paying 650 million at that time. Its about the same kind of dollars today. That was a lot of money. Rose the principle is what im interested in. Question the assumption. The key assumption was 20 share in five years. Rose you questioned that assumption. Yes. Rose what if its 30. What if its 30. Rose whats it worth. 3 billion. Gee it can be anywhere between 500 and 3 billion. So i better. Rose you would make it 30 rather than 22. We ended up with 35. Rose thats what entrepreneurs are made of. Thats exactly the point you know. When youre risking your own money its very different from when you risk some other peoples money. Even as a hired gun in a company, its the stockholders money. In this case, it was my money and my dad and my grandfather, we were all there. And it was to lose, we stood to lose everything not only what we were buying there but also a smaller one but still its all we had. So its what we called all in bed. Rose its what they call all in. They also call it betting the ranch. Betting the ranch, right, thats what we did. But fortunately it turned out okay and now 20 years later its an established player. We produce over 20,000 hours a year programming. All kinds of sports, news. We own soccer teams. And its very successful. Rose when Rupert Murdock bought the wall street journal. Paid through the nose. Rose but he put a price on it that he said would drive out, nobody else would be willing to pay that high. And he wanted it and i saw him the other day just happened to say at of conference, i asked him, i was talking to him and i said, do you regret it. He said absolutely not. Of course not. Because the wall street journal was for sale in the world. That has not only a great business position but also it has a very significant power position. Media is power and thats the way it is. Rose media is power. It is. Rose and media we learned all about it from america, you know. Cbs, nbc, the origins of nbc is very interesting how there was conglomeration in different blood casters as a public service. Rose david sarnoff. And then cbs bayly. Rose family was in the cigar business. How is that from cigars to tv. Thats how it was. Rose it was primarily radio. We were selling white goods, electronics and furniture. Rose but i mean, what amazes me about your story, at least this is what i read, the furniture began with beds. Yes. That was the original product. We had a factory that made the box spring or the bed where you put the mattress on top. That was the first part that our family did. And then we had a big family split because at that time there was two families, and they had a huge fight. Rose right. And basically the salinas were expelled from there. Rose let me come back to the family but lets talk about mexico. How do you feel about mexicos Economic Future today. Very well. Because look mexico had 120 million people. Half of the people are less than 25 years old. Its a very young country, its dynamic. Rose you look at emerging markets where theyre, i mean obviously japan has an older demographic, china has an older demographic, russia has an older demographic. But at the same time if you look in the middle east and if you look in latin america, theres a very young demographic. In general all our latin countries are very young. And thats why im optimistic because all these young people theyre not going to sit around on their hands waiting for somebody to fix their problems. Sure we have problems. Problems are everywhere. But these young people, they want to have a house, they want to get a job, they want to fill the house with stuff and they want to have children. And so far they do. Theyre hard workers and were doing well. So mexicos in a good moment right now. Rose whats the biggest challenge for mexico . Good government. Rose noncorrupt government . Government of laws. You know, yes. But much more important, i would say just effective government. Because you know, we came, im a product of the crises of the 80s. Mexico was wiped out of the face of the earth in terms of economic terms from 82 to 88. And those were very difficult years. We went totally broke. And people had basically given up on the country immigrating. So being, coming, having gone through that, which was caused by so badly mistaken Government Policies in terms of public spending, they spent everything. They put on huge debt. They build massive white elephants. And so they squandered a good part of our oil riches and thats what led us to that decline. Rose youre in the sofa business too. Yes. We have to compete. Rose with carlos slim. He bought the government monopoly. What they call the ppt the whole thing. They had local phone, Long Distance phones, mobile phones, all kinds of links. Everything was monopolized by the government. And this also was put to sale by salinas. And that was good. But the bad thing was they put it for sale as a monopoly. So it became from a private from a public monopoly it became a private monopoly. And very well run i have to say. Rose by carlos salinas. Yes. They did what they had to do. And they became a hugely successful private monopoly. Rose are you friendly rivals. Well i respect him a lot and we used to be closer. Rose what happened . This business problems have separated our friendship. Because the company that he runs is so big, basically they have an offer there that says as long as you call anybody on that network, its for free. So if you call our network, you have to pay. So that is the most predatory practice you can ever dream of. Rose what can you do about it . Well, we can squeal like stuck pigs and wait for new regulation which is what now is coming. Mexico passed a new telecom law that subjected us to this place of monopolies. Some of the promoters of this made a big stink about of course the telecom monopoly. And at the same time talking about the television monopoly because we have two companies in mexico. But its a radically different thing in terms of broadcast television. To start, broadcast television is free. You dont need to pay anything to watch it. And you can pay a lot to get a cell phone. Thats what were working on, how to get the prices down and to be more competitive. We need a lot of capital. Thats also true. Rose china as you know, which is a huge market, but i mean apple has to take into considering that most of their stuff sells at a higher price point than what the chinese are making. You have to wonder how is market share worth. Well apple has been extremely successful in keeping up their margins. I think somewhere in apple headquarters they should have a little shrine for all the carriers like me who buy these high price things and give them away to customers and try to have it permanently. Rose you have to give it away. I dont know how many billion in cash. Rose huge, its about a hundred billion isnt it. Its a bunch. So much so they decided to give some back to stockholders. Thats great. Rose i want to talk, you were outspoken. And you got into a little bit of trouble because of what you said about women. Or maybe it was misconstrued so were here to have you explain to me what you meant. Sure. What i was talking about is in modern society, especially in Mexican Society theres lots of cultural changes at that time need to happen. I was talking about that. And i was talking about how we need to change our attitude about legality about it being something that has to be and not optional. I was talking about our attitudes towards education that is not just a piece of paper, you really have to know how to do thing. Then the subject came up in the mexican family. Mexican family is a very strong unit in our country. And women at home have been the Keystone Holding families together. Now, with the entrance of mexico into the modern world, theres a pressure on women to not only be a homemaker but also a bread winner. So that puts enormous pressure on women. And frankly, i dont think we value that, all they do correctly. Because its very difficult rose what you intended to say was and perhaps you said and it was misconstrued was that we need to value what women do because theyre working not only outside the home but they work inside the home too and theyre called on to do more than men are called on. Precisely. Rose so maybe the an is men should take a bigger role at home some women would say. It comes back to valuing work. Sometimes theres a feeling that if a woman says well i work at home, im a homemaker night it rose it doesnt have the same value. Thats the implication. Rose clearly not true. Its clearly not true because women can do lots of things men cant. For one thing having babies. Rose first that. St your wife workout side of the home. My wife is a very successful executive she has her own design firm and shes very very successful and we have three small kids. So yes. And not only that, but one of my main businesses is binging for unbanked women. And we have over a million women in our program for micro credit loans to help them develop their own business. Because the other bummer for women in this society is they get married, they get some kids and they get divorced and they have nothing. And really our laws in term of making good for women and children are terrible. These dead beats that dont pay alimony or Child Support its terrible. Rose did your idea to do this come from simply being in the financial business or did it come from watching what had happened with micro finance in europe, i mean in asia. In asia and africa. In africa primarily. Well you know what the grammy bank did in pakistan is very interesting and well did you but its a charity. Its not a forprofit model. Because of that charity is limited. Charity can only grow to such level. And its not self sustaining; do you know what i mean. So what the grammy bank and unice did in pakistan is very interesting and worthy of praise. But its a charity. Its something thats not self sustaining. It depends on a certain amount coming in and then parsing out to women so it cant grow. I think they have 200,000 customers. We started the wink ten years ago and today we have over 30 million customers. Of those are 15 million loans. Because this is the selfsustaining business. Rose give me the kind of loan you make. The typical loan 200 for 12 months you got to pay back 400 after 12 months on a weekly payment. Its a small loan business, and that is exactly what our people need. No banks will get even close to lending you 300. Theyll lend you 5,000 but not 300. Rose the 300 is for obviously thats an important point. Is the point that youre loaning money for to enable families to buy things or to start companies. All kinds of things, charlie. And this is the thing. When i say we have 15 million loans, theres all kind of things going on. There could be a medical emergency, it could be a repair for the homes. It could be the wedding of a daughter or the 15 year old celebration which is big in our country. Or it could be a vacation. Its all kinds of stuff. What we mostly see is emergencies of some sort or another, mostly medical. And self construction, which is big in our country. Rose self construction you mean building. Your own house. You build the walls and them you put the ceiling. Rose this is a big industry building your own home. Yes. Basically. Rose looking back through the growth rate, mexico, for a while there was, what was the highest it was at. About 6 . Rose thats what i thought. And we were looking to mexico as saying this is the new brazil, it is the leading economy in latin america. Its now 12 . Yes. Well, you know, im a terrible skeptic about those gdp numbers. Sometimes they say 1. 3 or 3. 1 or 2. 2. If its 1. 6 you get depressed and you dont invest. It doesnt work like that. This is a very big measure of things going on, and has huge holes in gdp. Like for example, if you make a hole and then fill it up again, it counts as gdp. So i have a lot of questions about gdp numbers. But having said that, we have gone through a period of slower growth. Rose because . Well, again, government management in the last, in the last presidency calderon was disastrous. What he did in terms of putting the war a drugs on everybodys mind and scaring everybody about you can be killed if you visit mexico or you go to certain towns. I mean, thats not conductive to any kind of good business. Rose but the operative idea he had was we kind of wiped this out because it was hurting mexico in every way. Recognizing the demand came to the United States otherwise it wouldnt have been the kind of business it was. Money and guns. Rose money and guns come over. Exactly right. America has a role in this. It is so unhealthy for mexico, and so he would argue that it was an essential thing that we somehow use government to squelch as they did if columbia. You see columbia thats a problem. You draw the wrong parallel because that analysis is mistaken. The problem in columbia is theres a civil war going on with some armed guerrillas who want to overthrow the government and make money in drug trafficking. They want to be a big threat. Theyre going to get overthrowned and also drug trading. Rose im not sure thats what i understand to be the facts in columbia. Some of those people were not involved with the guerrilla groups and involved in the trade and a lot of them are simply doing it because it was a huge way to get very rich and they got very rich. Thats true. About but the point is, in mexico the business of trafficking drugs into the u. , and wore talking basically about cocaine because marijuana they do it very well here. They grow it very well in california and colorado and washington state. So the cocaine trade is obviously what sustained these cartels and these thugs. Why is it that all these drugs that are coming to the u. S. , they get distributed in the u. S. And they get consumed and they have no violence. Rose answer your own question. Whats the answer. Here in america you havent established tolerance. As long as these drug runners dont stick their head out too much or dont create a havoc, they are tolerated. In mexico, the rose tolerated but, theres not weve had a war. Wait a minute, yes, well. But show me one drug king pin thats been put to jail in the United States. One guy. We hear of Carlos Quintero and mr. Escobar. Rose the government says were not going to highlight were not going to tolerate. You dont say these kinds of things. Rose you can because youre a private citizen. Im a private citizen, im not a government function. Its more than whats done over here. Its a problem, im going to deal with it but were not going to make it number one priority and put it in the newspapers and newscasts every night. Because it creates a lot of havoc on peoples security. Rose the other problem though was not only was the violence and all that that meant but it was the corruption. I mean high level officials in the mexican government. As part of the drug trade . Rose yes. I really dont think its the case at all. Rose its the perception at least. Youre not suggesting there was not wide spread corruption, are you. No, no. Corruption has many aspects, okay. Like for example, the u. S. Customs officer who looks the other way when this truck goes by, thats one aspect of corruption. Rose it is. Now the mayor who takes, puts his hand in the till and takes the money, thats another aspect of corruption. So what are we talking about here. Rose were talking about where theres so much money involved in this that drug king pins can in fact work their way through and have some consequences with the amount of money theyre paying Law Enforcement officials so they escape both being caught and their business stuff because they get into the Law Enforcement system the Justice System. Thats a big problem in our country. The Justice System is inoperative because of lack of government attention. Rose so i rest my case. Im not talking about drugs im talking about petty crime. If you get your car stolen and you go and make a complaint theyre never going to catch a car thief. If you get beaten in the street nothings going to happen. God forbid if some of your familys killed, theres 2 of all kind get put in jail. Rose how many people do you know in your social rank have left mexico because of fear or they didnt want to worry having armed guards take their kids to school. Very few. Maybe one or two. I tell you what in the 80s i knew a lot more and most of them came back later after losing all their money in america. Rose what do you think of the new president . Y young and hes doing a good job. But he has all these reforms on the table at the same time. I think thats a big problem you know. Telecom, education, tax reform, political reform and energy reform. They say not even the best bullfighter does it with five bulls at a time. Rose no bullfighter could do that. Two is a lot. One is enough. Rose suppose trade. Speak to me about trade, mexico trade, u. S. Mexico and trade. Its huge. You see thats why the border with the u. S. Is so important for mexico and the u. S. Theres much more going on than this drug thing. Rose exactly. 400 billion in trade a year. I mean its human. People said well mexicos going to take all these drugs. You know, lots of companies have invested in mexico from the u. S. To mexico and from mexico to the u. S. And basically whats happening now that the location of mexico, the same zone as america has given as much advantages as china. You have your outsourcing in mexico like in china and india. Its the same time zone. You can fly from new york to mexico city under four hours. Rose is china or the Television Operations<\/a> there were lots of people that were interested in that. We emerged victorious because we paid way more than the next guy. It turned out that that was our lucky break, because we overpaid so much, we could not be discredited from the process, because you know, nobody knew me or what i stood for. And some guy was thrust into this media which is very public and very political. And there were lots of people who did not want there. Rose why did you pay so much . Well, its an interesting thing, you know. I hired the Bain Consulting<\/a> to do rose bain. Bain. With this consultation of how much the business was worth and they do this projection to bring it back. This is exactly worth 489 million. Well gee, how is this. They showed me this excel spreadsheet. And that was a long time ago, 20 years ago. They showed me this thing. What are the assumptions here. In year five youre going to have exactly 22 of the share of the market, advertising market. Well what happens instead of 22. 5 i have 30. Overrun it. It was like 3 billion, the price. So you went from a 20 to 30, the price went from 500 to 3 million. When i saw that number, i said gee who knows when youre at five youre going to have 20 or 30 . Im going to bet all my lot on this one. So i put all the money that i had together and ended up paying 650 million at that time. Its about the same kind of dollars today. That was a lot of money. Rose the principle is what im interested in. Question the assumption. The key assumption was 20 share in five years. Rose you questioned that assumption. Yes. Rose what if its 30. What if its 30. Rose whats it worth. 3 billion. Gee it can be anywhere between 500 and 3 billion. So i better. Rose you would make it 30 rather than 22. We ended up with 35. Rose thats what entrepreneurs are made of. Thats exactly the point you know. When youre risking your own money its very different from when you risk some other peoples money. Even as a hired gun in a company, its the stockholders money. In this case, it was my money and my dad and my grandfather, we were all there. And it was to lose, we stood to lose everything not only what we were buying there but also a smaller one but still its all we had. So its what we called all in bed. Rose its what they call all in. They also call it betting the ranch. Betting the ranch, right, thats what we did. But fortunately it turned out okay and now 20 years later its an established player. We produce over 20,000 hours a year programming. All kinds of sports, news. We own soccer teams. And its very successful. Rose when Rupert Murdock<\/a> bought the wall street journal. Paid through the nose. Rose but he put a price on it that he said would drive out, nobody else would be willing to pay that high. And he wanted it and i saw him the other day just happened to say at of conference, i asked him, i was talking to him and i said, do you regret it. He said absolutely not. Of course not. Because the wall street journal was for sale in the world. That has not only a great business position but also it has a very significant power position. Media is power and thats the way it is. Rose media is power. It is. Rose and media we learned all about it from america, you know. Cbs, nbc, the origins of nbc is very interesting how there was conglomeration in different blood casters as a public service. Rose david sarnoff. And then cbs bayly. Rose family was in the cigar business. How is that from cigars to tv. Thats how it was. Rose it was primarily radio. We were selling white goods, electronics and furniture. Rose but i mean, what amazes me about your story, at least this is what i read, the furniture began with beds. Yes. That was the original product. We had a factory that made the box spring or the bed where you put the mattress on top. That was the first part that our family did. And then we had a big family split because at that time there was two families, and they had a huge fight. Rose right. And basically the salinas were expelled from there. Rose let me come back to the family but lets talk about mexico. How do you feel about mexicos Economic Future<\/a> today. Very well. Because look mexico had 120 million people. Half of the people are less than 25 years old. Its a very young country, its dynamic. Rose you look at emerging markets where theyre, i mean obviously japan has an older demographic, china has an older demographic, russia has an older demographic. But at the same time if you look in the middle east and if you look in latin america, theres a very young demographic. In general all our latin countries are very young. And thats why im optimistic because all these young people theyre not going to sit around on their hands waiting for somebody to fix their problems. Sure we have problems. Problems are everywhere. But these young people, they want to have a house, they want to get a job, they want to fill the house with stuff and they want to have children. And so far they do. Theyre hard workers and were doing well. So mexicos in a good moment right now. Rose whats the biggest challenge for mexico . Good government. Rose noncorrupt government . Government of laws. You know, yes. But much more important, i would say just effective government. Because you know, we came, im a product of the crises of the 80s. Mexico was wiped out of the face of the earth in terms of economic terms from 82 to 88. And those were very difficult years. We went totally broke. And people had basically given up on the country immigrating. So being, coming, having gone through that, which was caused by so badly mistaken Government Policies<\/a> in terms of public spending, they spent everything. They put on huge debt. They build massive white elephants. And so they squandered a good part of our oil riches and thats what led us to that decline. Rose youre in the sofa business too. Yes. We have to compete. Rose with carlos slim. He bought the government monopoly. What they call the ppt the whole thing. They had local phone, Long Distance<\/a> phones, mobile phones, all kinds of links. Everything was monopolized by the government. And this also was put to sale by salinas. And that was good. But the bad thing was they put it for sale as a monopoly. So it became from a private from a public monopoly it became a private monopoly. And very well run i have to say. Rose by carlos salinas. Yes. They did what they had to do. And they became a hugely successful private monopoly. Rose are you friendly rivals. Well i respect him a lot and we used to be closer. Rose what happened . This business problems have separated our friendship. Because the company that he runs is so big, basically they have an offer there that says as long as you call anybody on that network, its for free. So if you call our network, you have to pay. So that is the most predatory practice you can ever dream of. Rose what can you do about it . Well, we can squeal like stuck pigs and wait for new regulation which is what now is coming. Mexico passed a new telecom law that subjected us to this place of monopolies. Some of the promoters of this made a big stink about of course the telecom monopoly. And at the same time talking about the television monopoly because we have two companies in mexico. But its a radically different thing in terms of broadcast television. To start, broadcast television is free. You dont need to pay anything to watch it. And you can pay a lot to get a cell phone. Thats what were working on, how to get the prices down and to be more competitive. We need a lot of capital. Thats also true. Rose china as you know, which is a huge market, but i mean apple has to take into considering that most of their stuff sells at a higher price point than what the chinese are making. You have to wonder how is market share worth. Well apple has been extremely successful in keeping up their margins. I think somewhere in apple headquarters they should have a little shrine for all the carriers like me who buy these high price things and give them away to customers and try to have it permanently. Rose you have to give it away. I dont know how many billion in cash. Rose huge, its about a hundred billion isnt it. Its a bunch. So much so they decided to give some back to stockholders. Thats great. Rose i want to talk, you were outspoken. And you got into a little bit of trouble because of what you said about women. Or maybe it was misconstrued so were here to have you explain to me what you meant. Sure. What i was talking about is in modern society, especially in Mexican Society<\/a> theres lots of cultural changes at that time need to happen. I was talking about that. And i was talking about how we need to change our attitude about legality about it being something that has to be and not optional. I was talking about our attitudes towards education that is not just a piece of paper, you really have to know how to do thing. Then the subject came up in the mexican family. Mexican family is a very strong unit in our country. And women at home have been the Keystone Holding<\/a> families together. Now, with the entrance of mexico into the modern world, theres a pressure on women to not only be a homemaker but also a bread winner. So that puts enormous pressure on women. And frankly, i dont think we value that, all they do correctly. Because its very difficult rose what you intended to say was and perhaps you said and it was misconstrued was that we need to value what women do because theyre working not only outside the home but they work inside the home too and theyre called on to do more than men are called on. Precisely. Rose so maybe the an is men should take a bigger role at home some women would say. It comes back to valuing work. Sometimes theres a feeling that if a woman says well i work at home, im a homemaker night it rose it doesnt have the same value. Thats the implication. Rose clearly not true. Its clearly not true because women can do lots of things men cant. For one thing having babies. Rose first that. St your wife workout side of the home. My wife is a very successful executive she has her own design firm and shes very very successful and we have three small kids. So yes. And not only that, but one of my main businesses is binging for unbanked women. And we have over a million women in our program for micro credit loans to help them develop their own business. Because the other bummer for women in this society is they get married, they get some kids and they get divorced and they have nothing. And really our laws in term of making good for women and children are terrible. These dead beats that dont pay alimony or Child Support<\/a> its terrible. Rose did your idea to do this come from simply being in the financial business or did it come from watching what had happened with micro finance in europe, i mean in asia. In asia and africa. In africa primarily. Well you know what the grammy bank did in pakistan is very interesting and well did you but its a charity. Its not a forprofit model. Because of that charity is limited. Charity can only grow to such level. And its not self sustaining; do you know what i mean. So what the grammy bank and unice did in pakistan is very interesting and worthy of praise. But its a charity. Its something thats not self sustaining. It depends on a certain amount coming in and then parsing out to women so it cant grow. I think they have 200,000 customers. We started the wink ten years ago and today we have over 30 million customers. Of those are 15 million loans. Because this is the selfsustaining business. Rose give me the kind of loan you make. The typical loan 200 for 12 months you got to pay back 400 after 12 months on a weekly payment. Its a small loan business, and that is exactly what our people need. No banks will get even close to lending you 300. Theyll lend you 5,000 but not 300. Rose the 300 is for obviously thats an important point. Is the point that youre loaning money for to enable families to buy things or to start companies. All kinds of things, charlie. And this is the thing. When i say we have 15 million loans, theres all kind of things going on. There could be a medical emergency, it could be a repair for the homes. It could be the wedding of a daughter or the 15 year old celebration which is big in our country. Or it could be a vacation. Its all kinds of stuff. What we mostly see is emergencies of some sort or another, mostly medical. And self construction, which is big in our country. Rose self construction you mean building. Your own house. You build the walls and them you put the ceiling. Rose this is a big industry building your own home. Yes. Basically. Rose looking back through the growth rate, mexico, for a while there was, what was the highest it was at. About 6 . Rose thats what i thought. And we were looking to mexico as saying this is the new brazil, it is the leading economy in latin america. Its now 12 . Yes. Well, you know, im a terrible skeptic about those gdp numbers. Sometimes they say 1. 3 or 3. 1 or 2. 2. If its 1. 6 you get depressed and you dont invest. It doesnt work like that. This is a very big measure of things going on, and has huge holes in gdp. Like for example, if you make a hole and then fill it up again, it counts as gdp. So i have a lot of questions about gdp numbers. But having said that, we have gone through a period of slower growth. Rose because . Well, again, government management in the last, in the last presidency calderon was disastrous. What he did in terms of putting the war a drugs on everybodys mind and scaring everybody about you can be killed if you visit mexico or you go to certain towns. I mean, thats not conductive to any kind of good business. Rose but the operative idea he had was we kind of wiped this out because it was hurting mexico in every way. Recognizing the demand came to the United States<\/a> otherwise it wouldnt have been the kind of business it was. Money and guns. Rose money and guns come over. Exactly right. America has a role in this. It is so unhealthy for mexico, and so he would argue that it was an essential thing that we somehow use government to squelch as they did if columbia. You see columbia thats a problem. You draw the wrong parallel because that analysis is mistaken. The problem in columbia is theres a civil war going on with some armed guerrillas who want to overthrow the government and make money in drug trafficking. They want to be a big threat. Theyre going to get overthrowned and also drug trading. Rose im not sure thats what i understand to be the facts in columbia. Some of those people were not involved with the guerrilla groups and involved in the trade and a lot of them are simply doing it because it was a huge way to get very rich and they got very rich. Thats true. About but the point is, in mexico the business of trafficking drugs into the u. , and wore talking basically about cocaine because marijuana they do it very well here. They grow it very well in california and colorado and washington state. So the cocaine trade is obviously what sustained these cartels and these thugs. Why is it that all these drugs that are coming to the u. S. , they get distributed in the u. S. And they get consumed and they have no violence. Rose answer your own question. Whats the answer. Here in america you havent established tolerance. As long as these drug runners dont stick their head out too much or dont create a havoc, they are tolerated. In mexico, the rose tolerated but, theres not weve had a war. Wait a minute, yes, well. But show me one drug king pin thats been put to jail in the United States<\/a>. One guy. We hear of Carlos Quintero<\/a> and mr. Escobar. Rose the government says were not going to highlight were not going to tolerate. You dont say these kinds of things. Rose you can because youre a private citizen. Im a private citizen, im not a government function. Its more than whats done over here. Its a problem, im going to deal with it but were not going to make it number one priority and put it in the newspapers and newscasts every night. Because it creates a lot of havoc on peoples security. Rose the other problem though was not only was the violence and all that that meant but it was the corruption. I mean high level officials in the mexican government. As part of the drug trade . Rose yes. I really dont think its the case at all. Rose its the perception at least. Youre not suggesting there was not wide spread corruption, are you. No, no. Corruption has many aspects, okay. Like for example, the u. S. Customs officer who looks the other way when this truck goes by, thats one aspect of corruption. Rose it is. Now the mayor who takes, puts his hand in the till and takes the money, thats another aspect of corruption. So what are we talking about here. Rose were talking about where theres so much money involved in this that drug king pins can in fact work their way through and have some consequences with the amount of money theyre paying Law Enforcement<\/a> officials so they escape both being caught and their business stuff because they get into the Law Enforcement<\/a> system the Justice System<\/a>. Thats a big problem in our country. The Justice System<\/a> is inoperative because of lack of government attention. Rose so i rest my case. Im not talking about drugs im talking about petty crime. If you get your car stolen and you go and make a complaint theyre never going to catch a car thief. If you get beaten in the street nothings going to happen. God forbid if some of your familys killed, theres 2 of all kind get put in jail. Rose how many people do you know in your social rank have left mexico because of fear or they didnt want to worry having armed guards take their kids to school. Very few. Maybe one or two. I tell you what in the 80s i knew a lot more and most of them came back later after losing all their money in america. Rose what do you think of the new president . Y young and hes doing a good job. But he has all these reforms on the table at the same time. I think thats a big problem you know. Telecom, education, tax reform, political reform and energy reform. They say not even the best bullfighter does it with five bulls at a time. Rose no bullfighter could do that. Two is a lot. One is enough. Rose suppose trade. Speak to me about trade, mexico trade, u. S. Mexico and trade. Its huge. You see thats why the border with the u. S. Is so important for mexico and the u. S. Theres much more going on than this drug thing. Rose exactly. 400 billion in trade a year. I mean its human. People said well mexicos going to take all these drugs. You know, lots of companies have invested in mexico from the u. S. To mexico and from mexico to the u. S. And basically whats happening now that the location of mexico, the same zone as america has given as much advantages as china. You have your outsourcing in mexico like in china and india. Its the same time zone. You can fly from new york to mexico city under four hours. Rose is china or the United States<\/a> mexicos largest trading partner. U. S. By par. Rose who is second . I dont mean to put you on the spot. I dont know maybe canada or maybe the European Union<\/a>. Rose the union as a whole. Its a whole. Rose European Union<\/a> as a whole is the largest economy in the world. Mexico has a lot of imports from china but not as much as one would think. Rose it doesnt have a Natural Resource<\/a> like chi anyway has copper. Mexico has resources too. We have oil and mexicos always been a mining country. Now there are lots of goes on the mining riches. The government wants to put a hand in their riches. Rose you never been tempted to get in the oil business. Well the oil business in mexico is a monopoly how are they going to fill that 30 . Rose should they privatize . Technical philosophers suggest privatization. Its an impossible situation. It just wont happen. It will not be privatized. The fact is the National Oil Company<\/a> has been badly mismanaged in the past. I mean in the past 20 years. It had too many people and its rules and regulations are unwieldy. Again, the government claim entrepreneur is not a good role for the government. The government should do justice, do education and leave the private to do the enterprise. But in the case of pan mex they need to be more flexible and run it more like a Public Company<\/a> without privatizing their shares. Its not going to happen. Rose can they run it . Can a Government Company<\/a> be run like a private company. China you have the same issue in china, do you not. Yes exactly all those state enterprises. We have some examples of stateowned companies that do well for example the chilian copper company. Rose one of the things they seem to be doing, one of the reform is not to provide a monopoly for stateowned companies. Not a monopoly in terms of market but a monopoly in being able to beat back competition because they had advantages in competing with the private sector, whether it was their own private sector or private sector from around. Thats the least any government could do. At least have them compete. In the case of mexico its especially complicated because the oil thats underground is by law belongs to the state. Rose i want to talk about two other issues. One. This is an economy issue. One of the huge problems in the world as you well know is the growing divide between rich and poor. Yes. Rose my impression is that it has, mexico, unlike many countries, has shortened the divide between rich and poor. Yeah. Rose how did you do it. You talk about the gap, youre comparing one that has a lot to one that has less. I dont think the issue is the gap. I would say thats the politics of envy. I would say that the issue is how low is this guy at the bottom and what do we do to bring him up. Its easy to close the gap. Do away with the rich people. Rose or make the poor richer. Thats a big difference. Thats what im advocating. Lets make the poor richer. Rose how would you do it. Its not the divide the absolute low level of income. Because theres no way that people are different. And theyre going to have differ outcomes over their lives. Even if you made everybody the same at one point in time. In one year theres going to be huge gaps again. Etcetera the way it works. What we want to look for is for equal opportunity. Not for equal outcomes. So rose that issues from the United States<\/a> too we want equal opportunities not equal outcomes. Here were talking about the 1 and the. 1 and how offensive that is. Because thats envy. Rose youre saying when envy is part of the equation it doesnt work. I dont think so. We have to be proactive in the proposal. So yes we have some people who are in bad shape at the bottom of the pyramid, at the base of the pyramid. And what can we do to improve their live. Rose education is one. Absolutely. Its the only one. Because whats it going to be subsidy . Are we going to give them the fish or are we going to teach them to fish. Thats an issue in all of latin america. And im saying many places in the world too. Rose finally, you have said something very interesting to me to publicly. You said beyond Structural Reforms<\/a> central and latin america really need a true cultural revolution. A cultural change. You know, that is absolutely critical because mexico and latin america are both parts of the same history. You have on the one hand this indigenous history with many different kind of ethnic local cultures. And then it suddenly becomes together, comes together with this hispanic culture, spanish culture from spain in the 1500s. So many people confuse this as a conquest. Its not a conquest its a mixture. Its the creation of a totally new culture of mix between spanish and indigenous cultures. This creates the latin america we know. In many so countries to more degree. Like mexico and peru. Some others to less degree like chile and argentina. This new culture adopts the things from the Indian Culture<\/a> and from the spanish culture and some are quite counterproductive so with a need to change that. For example the spanish culture taught us that nobility titles were the way to get rich. You were named marquis or duke or whatever and then you could exploit your fiefdom in this medieval culture. But the indians and spanish, they had the same thing. They also had and they could exploit the local populous. So we need to change the culture. We need to make success as a result of effort and not a privilege. Thats one thing. The other thing is, the rule of law. In our countries, in many of our countries, we have this commonality that we believe that the law should be really flexible. It can be applied or it cannot be applied. Thats a nonstarter. I mean in terms of investment, certainty, we need to have clear law that are applied regardless. And that has to change. Rose let me turn finally to immigration which i touched on earlier. The president of the United States<\/a> has said, you know, the next thing he wants to do once he gets past the budget thing is Immigration Reform<\/a>. What would be your advice to the president about Immigration Reform<\/a> . Open up. Americas always been about free trade and about free immigration. This country as great as it is because it brought all these people from all parts of the world and begin this huge melting pot of people that want to be part of success. Now there are many ways to deal with this issue. You can have an immigrant become citizens. Maybe thats not the way to do it. But certainly you can have the program for guest workers. Not a big deal. When you hear these arguments from the opposition what are we going to do with our local jobs. Lots of jobs are not being taken right now, picking the fields in california and nobody wants to do it. Rose immigrants would do it. Right. And they would go back. The political system in the states is very interesting. How is it that america has only two colors, red and blue. When any country in the world you have a multitude of colors. You got red, orange rose only red and blue. Thats it, republicans and democrats. Rose thats true. Although now there are states that say they are really more purple than red or blue. Dont you think thats notable. Nothing like that in the world exist. Rose its a two party system. Its a twoparty system. So that i think doesnt help because it polarizes everything. Rose its been impossible, i mean its been impossible for an effective third party to even get close to starting here in this country. But why a third. Rose heres the interesting thing. You are suggesting three, four, five six parties would be better or worse. Better because you have more choices. I absolutely agree. But look the International Experience<\/a> charlie. Germany has lots of parties, spain has lots of parties. Rose whats happening today. To chancellor merkel just won reelection shes trying to find a partner, trying to wheel and deal. It might have been this party one time and maybe in that party last time. Its not so much about ideas as it is count, numbers. Right. But you have to compromise and get things down. Rose which is interesting politic in the first place. Multiple parties, six or seven parties, i dont think you can get a lot, thats not a if idea. Maybe its not but i tell you what its an anomaly in the world. To have elections on a tuesday. Why would they do that . Tuesday nobody shows up. Rose thats another its a big deal rose im all with you on that the too. Not on tuesday or not necessarily a whole lot of things you can do to make the system better. Im thinking of a whole number of places. There are whole tons of parties in israel for example but they are essentially to three parties, you know. Yes. Rose i mean the labor and run for a while and thats down. Theyve got a series of small religious parties simply form coalitions. Israel is a peculiar place but mexico for example we have five parties at least. Rose its hard to talk to mexico when you have one party that dominated mexico for most of its history. Until it changed and now we have a lot. Ha ha ha. Rose so is mexico better under preparty. Its definitely better now with competition. Because you can choose, you know. Hillary say well, this thing about the government grid lock should be a lesson for americans so that they put attention to what people they vote for. Its just two choices. Its kind of hard to choose. Rose thats a whole other subject. What do you think of her . Shes a master politician. She has a lot of experience. I think she could do a about good job. Rose good president. I think so because experience counts for a lot. Mr. Obama with all due respect. He never had been in government. He had been a senator. Rose for a brief time. Its not the same to be in the executive rose when you look at his im just pointing out a fact. I cannot criticize, its not my country and hes not my president. But you know for example in mexico, he comes from the state of mexico where he was governor. President clinton came from the state of kansas where he was governor. Rose arkansas. Arkansas. Thats a real cost like calderon, hes never been in government. So its a handicap. The executive branch has its own rules. Rose politics is different than business. Its very different. Very different. Yes. Absolutely. Thats why i never run for politics . Rose because. Its different. Rose its different in that itsism me first of all mean its not simply black and white. Its nottism me about the numbers. Its about people in an interesting way and its about politics and its about coalitions. Exactly. I would say for government office. Now i am in politics in a different way. Our social Action Program<\/a> are just fantastic. We have these Youth Orchestra<\/a> program. We have now 13,000 kids. Rose who is we. We, the grupo salinas. We have a use orchestra. Its a heart warming thing youve seen. I hope you get a chance to see one. We have kids who many of them never played an instrument and in four months theyre doing a symphony. And we have 13,000 kids now on that. And this is after just three years. Rose heres an idea i actually talked to larry page about this recently. It is the idea of the definition of a corporation, not whether its a person or not and all those kinds of things has legal issues. It is the power of the resources of corporations and how they can be used. If you organize them correctly. Rose exactly. I think a government could be run in a corporate way but with social action in my. Rose right, exactly. Its because you have the human resources, you have the talent, you have the financial resources. Basically a successful corporation is accountable. Rose it is. The problem with many governments is theyre not. Rose thats why we had elections. Well thats too late, thats four years later or eight years later. Rose thank you for coming. Its a pleasure to have you here. Maybe we can do this next time in mexico. Why not. Rose fake a look at mexico. Im show you tv azteca. Rose thank you for coming. Thank you. Rose well be right back. Stay with us. They must know where that money is. Return on equity must reach 20 . For every major transaction significant bonuses will be granted to them. How you achieve this is of course all to yourself. Rose costagavras is here hes an oscar winning filmmaker. A move in grease came out in 196. Since then hes become known for the ability to urge plight can you issues with the suspense of action thriller. His movie explores Global Finance<\/a>. Theyre the trailer for capital. Theyre waiting. No way. The Little French<\/a> frog friends will drop you. In the cut throat world of Global Finance<\/a> helping the little guy is a luxury you just cant afford. Its not because i need it. But if you make the right friends. We want to create is a powerful bank. And know all the angles. You help us, we help you. You can do anything you want. You can do that. I wanted to break from the past together. Just be careful. This is my life. Nice to meet you. Least keep this between ourselves, shall we. The one thing money cant buy. Think about pleasure, only about pleasure. Is a conscious. Playing with the numbers. Redemption comes at a cost. Going too far. But corruption. Is priceless. People believe that money is a tool. Well theyre wrong. Money is the master. Capital, from two Time Academy Award<\/a> winning director costagavras. Rose i am pleased to costagavras at this table for the very first time. Welcome. Its a pleasure to have you here. Thank you, sir. Rose how did you come to this subject . Years ago, i was planning to make a movie about money. Because i think money change people completely psychologically, i mean. So i tried to find exactly what and that is a book by a french president of a bank which is to say that the for the money people, for the banks, democracy its a placebo. And i was curious to learn more about that and i found that book which was written by someone who is in the finance field. Rose there was one book called total capitalism, yes. There was another one that you called, what, capitalism was it. What was the second book that influenced you. Yes. It was total capitalism. Capitalist is one and then total capitalism. Yes, the worse system is over all the others you must know charlie. Rose yes, i do. So its a triumph. All the other systems fell apart, the companies and all kinds of other systems. And even china which is supposed to be a communist system its not a communist system its a total capitalist system. Rose its called state capitalism. Its the few people running the country and have the authority. Rose define your character for me. Tume. Who is he. Hes a normal person. He is coming from a middle class family. He does economic studies and he went up in a day from one moment to another becomes the chief of a bank. And he decides to stay there whatever the ethics would be. Rose heres a scene. Hes played by gad. Who was a french comedian. Hes a comedian. Hes probably the most funny guys in europe, in french speaking. Rose this is not a funny part. Its actually not. Because he was very sympathetic to play that role and since when he accepted, it was a great to work with him and to create that kind of which is the one we see in the movie. Rose why did you want him. Because i like to change. And also i would like to have someone else said to be sympathetic in the beginning of the movie. Rose you liked him in the beginning and you watched him change. And we see how he changes. Its exactly what happens with the force of the people. We see the people in television, they give us an extraordinary speech saying that everything can be all right and we work for you and so forth and then we discover its different. Rose take a look. This is where he talks to his uncle about Global Finance<\/a>. Heres the scene. Rose now is that theory a global capitalism that he expressed. Yes, absolutely. Rose but he becomes corrupted after that. I wouldnt say corrupted, he becomes normal. Rose normal like everybody else. He buys into the system. Right, absolutely. He had the system continuing the way it is. Rose didnt he have a point that there are good things about the system because it feeds children and provides Living Standards<\/a> for people. Right. Rose it creates a healthy economies in some cases. Right. But its also depend on the stockholders. And if he doesnt do exactly what the stockholders ask him to do, hes out. So hes ready to stay his position to do anything as necessary. Rose what about politics fascinates you the most because there was something about the, you know that reps resonated because it was great storytelling and yet we knew it was based on real facts. Its not so much about that its about the human beings who vote and they get so attached to someone without any criticism. Without saying oh this guy did wrong thing its not good. And keep voting sometimes for the same person again and again and justify him. I think were not enough critical without politicians. Rose who is a politician that you admire . Dugall. Rose what was it about dugall. Because he drove churchill and roosevelt crazy. His ego was, he defined himself i am france. It was not his ego for him it was for the country. The only person he was devoted was the country. Rose france. France. Not so much the french people but the country. The idea of his country, absolutely. And he really fought very strongly with the small army he had to destroy the germans, to destroy the nazis which was probably one of the best. This is another great politician because he was churchill. Rose of course he lost the election after the war. Yes. But again we saw rose tell me about degaul beyond what we just said that makes you fascinating. First of all he wrote a great memoir. He was a great writer. Rose yes. But first of all, they got one he left from the power, he was supposed to have the salary of the president and also for the general. Surely the salary for the general salarys. Rose he took the generals salary. Not the president s. Rose because he wanted himself as a general rather than a president. No. Because he like to go after money. And he changed the industry of france. For example he created the first pay currently. Since then, the french european, the European Industry<\/a> of french is important one. Rose who influenced you as a filmmaker. The french cinema without a doubt. The japanese french cinema which is the 50s and 60s. Rose who else. For me someone very important because i read the book and then i saw the movie, it was the grapes of wrath it was shock for me to see the cinema was able to do that kind of work. Another one was ignorance from behind which is a very long movie, very no happy end of course but it was a great movie. Rose what was it about the magic of film . Was it the tools of storytelling . No. My idea is to be writer. I went to france to study literature. And then i discovered the cinema because i was coming from a country where the good cinema was not showing. It was a lot of censorship. And there was which was extraordinary movie. So i discovered that with the cinema it was possible to make tragedies. Rose you said to the New York Times<\/a> once people dealing with art, we must be like antennas catching the movements in society before they happen. Are we doing that in cinema . Some. Its not always easy but its important to do it. In you go back to cinema, if you see charlie chaplains modern times, he speaks about that historically. Rose its a pleasure to meet you. Thank you, sir. Rose the movie is called capital it opens on friday the 25th in new york. And friday november 1st . Los angeles. And then will expand from there. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. See you next time. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications<\/a> captioned by Media Access Group<\/a> at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org just 100 years after lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation that freed the slaves, 200,000 people converge on the Nations Capital<\/a> to rally for civil rights. If we all participate and we all show strength in numbers, things will change for us. We were here to march for our rights. I felt i had to do it, and i did it. Theres a cause here, and we are we are on the precipice of change here. Were going to do something. [ singing ] we hold these truths to be selfevident, that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The idea for march on washington, this particular march, comes from the 1941 march on washington that a. Philip resolve wanted to do. The old man was hardcore. He had been hard core in the 40s, he wags still hard core. He belved there was no substitute for direct action. He had come to work with bared rusten jorges known as one of the best organizers from the 1930s to the 1960s. About the same time, Martin Luther<\/a> king, who is pretty much pressure off of birmingham, hes doing a national tour, trying to raise money for the southern christian leadership council, also starts talking about the march. Dr. King goes to birmingham. And as we know very well, he writes the letter from birmingham jail to the white ministers, who said, no, now is not the time. But when is the time . Dr. King said, of course, that, wait for the American Negro<\/a> has meant never. And that African Americans<\/a> had to push for their rights, that there had never been a moment when everyone thought that it was okay to have a mass demonstration. They want to capitalize on whats happened at birmingham. Everything, the mass action, the public attention, the kneejerk reactions by bull connor with the fire hoses and the dogs and all this sort tv thing. So now that they have national attention, they want to ramp it up a little bit more, if they could bring a group, a large group of people to the Nations Capital<\/a>. I mean, at one point resten says, you talk about 300,000, its way too high. They might not be able to envision exactly how many. Certainly perhaps over a hundred thousand. This would have been a victory in and of itself. People knew that it was coming, so those of us who had gone up in grown up in d. C. And were very cognizant of what was going on in other areas of the country, many of us wants to be participants in it. I was seven years old. I was in my grandmothers restaurant. My grandmother owned a restaurant in alexandria, virginia. I just remember one day hearing a lot of buzz about dr. Martin luther king is coming to the area, dr. Martin luther king is going to be in town. My pastor was he was highly on members being aware and participating in that march on washington. He said he wanted all the members to be a part of that, a part of that history. So i was determined that i was going to be part of that history. We would have conferences every summer, called the Youth Congress<\/a>. And at the Youth Congress<\/a> in the plenary session, i think it was, they qr talking with we talking about the march at the ending session, one of the elders, ministers, got up and said, i nominate loretta. I said, oh, my god. I wont be able to go. He said, yes, you will","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia800505.us.archive.org\/12\/items\/WHUT_20131101_030000_Charlie_Rose\/WHUT_20131101_030000_Charlie_Rose.thumbs\/WHUT_20131101_030000_Charlie_Rose_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240619T12:35:10+00:00"}

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