Ill get to you i promise. What would be constitutional . You have to be very particular about particularly if what you but if you want criminal penalty you have to be so particular in order to pass a constitutionality in that order take you right away away from criminal sanctions to civil sanctions or to what i think is most appropriate. If ever the words carrot and stick had any meaning they have a meaning in this situation. I was going to say going back to something you said what makes this specific case that were talking about. Within regards to what they do already say in the law it says that you have to have a severe addiction to be a severe user. That something here that is clearly not the case that was not the case with this woman. It did not meet the standard of what is already in the law. So, thats why i said it wasnt properly enforced. Wouldnt even be having this discussion. It was enforcement of the law not the she went to jail. The judge to have found that under the law you are guilty. Thats why its going all the way up dash da. We all agree shes shes going to win the case. Implementation, you cant dodge how you have to write a law what you have to face is the criminal sanction. Do you want a criminal sanction or is some other sanction or some other way to get her there. I must tell you i think you want to get her there very early. So you have to think of incentives that didnt wait until she was feeling that maybe something is going to happen. You have got to reach out and people have found ways to reach out today, are we doing it in big cities, where you in poorer neighborhoods, for example. You have people that go in to the neighborhoods just looking for people who have become pregnant. You care about this issue, thats the way to go about it. They arent looking for people who have been on drugs. They are simply looking for poor women or minority women who will get to the emergency room when the birth is about to occur. We can do this. Not so many that we cannot handle this. Weve got to handle it. I agree with you. Can we afford it . Well, here not that wholesale this is the way that the Pro Life Movement to provide all kinds of prenatal care and opportunities for support for mothers in need. Mothers who may not have expected a pregnancy, i think absolutely we can handle that. But do you agree thats how the pro life information about how the Pro Life Movement was moving is differs from your you are steeped in, im just observer but i understood the Pro Life Movement was not sending people out in to the streets to look for to help pregnant women but setting up these what are they called, pregnancy crisis centers. Crisis pregnancy centers. Pregnancy care centers now to they will give people blankets and sort of send them on their giving them ultrasounds and helping them discern what is going on with their pregnancy and what needs. But theyre not providing medications, doctor visits, food for the baby. Nutrition thats the whole network that pro life Pregnancy Care Centers exist to help with to connect them with churches, neighborhood centers, access to the kind of health care that they need. I would say the interesting thing is, while this is has become a polarized topic it wasnt two decades ago. There was there were republican and Democratic Women who i would say when they polled them, removed from these terms of pro live and pro choice people agree on what the solutions are. Youve said it here, the support for women versus making them feel on the attack. My hope is that, in certain sanctions i should say the Pro Life Movement you do see this. How do we look at this differently it isnt get whereby we need. I think deplore rising looking what systemic issues are. Again, in general, as people we respond better to support than we do attack. This tomo feels like an attack. How can we create something that feels like a support. All right. Let us know what you think. Please follow me on twitter bonnieerbe. From pregnancy to sexism. A new ad Campaign Launched this week by u. N. Women reveals that despite decades of global advancement, sexism and discrimination against women is still rampant worldwide. U. N. Women hired an ad agency to conduct google searches on phrases such as women should and women cant. The Search Engines autocomplete function generated phrases such as women should be slaves, should not work, cannot drive and need to be controlled. The ads display the most popular responses over the mouths of women, showing in graphic form how women are silenced by gender bias. The United Nations organizations officials believe this is proof it needs to continue making the case. For gender empowerment and equality. So Marjorie Clifton what about this campaign, do you think its a good idea . I think its very telling what bing and google and other great Search Engines allow removing the human hand to sort of see in a very analytical way what humans and what people are actually doing online without having intervention. What were seeing is the unfortunate truth but also the global truth that were looking at now. I think what again these Search Engines do open up the world to us. Especially in the United States we think this wildly empowered group of women where we rank 73 in the world for the percentage of women in parliament. Of having sent time in the middle east i can tell you all the terms that theyre talking about, the things realities that women are looking at there are very, very different. There is still a lot of work to do. I think its a wonderful campaign. Again, google being something that opened the door to women across the world but also very reflective of attitudes. I also think its a great campaign. I know a lot of young women in my generation probably have no idea what women in these other countries are facing. We were talking about this before the show that i would call lot what young women are worried about first world problems. I dont have a dress to wear for the show, what am i going to d. Someone in the other country worry about this and this subject rain not being able to drive. Not being able to wear a dress without that is something i think is really great to at least show my generation that, here are some people with real problems. I certainly hope that youre right. Since this was global, most of these came from outside the United States. My reading of it was that they didnt quite tell us enough where they came from. But it does look only comfort i take is that people if for the ones in the United States, cant speak about outside of this country where you have much rare acceptance of sexism, in the United States must have been just an opportunity to vent. Who comes to vent at times like this are the people, are the haters. The ones that couldnt in plight company say exactly the same thing. Now of course, globally, that kind of thing i do think it would be help to have break this down to know where these responses are coming from. Count me a skeptic on this one. Whenever i type something in to google its always a bizarre pattern that autotype takes. I dont quite see it as much as of an ant lit i can tool as you might have suggested. Just to flatten it the issues that women face, rather than helping us understand the real context of actual women in concrete circumstances, some of which are very horrifying circumstances i think your comparison to our first world problem is very apt contrast. I dont know that it really helps us get far ahead in solving actual problems. But you talked about first world problems. Yes. I dont think theres anybody who would dispute, for example, that being a woman in the United States, you probably have better access to education, health care, Economic Empowerment than just about anywhere except the nordic country in europe. On the other hand, we have so many fewer women in congress, in parliament than other countries and weve certainly never had a female country leader and Something Like 60 countries to this date have, most of them democratically elected at this point. Does your generation kid itself in terms of where america really is, in terms of womens rights. Still think we lead the world . I think that many probably are uneducated on that issue, probably do think that. However, at the same time i know so many young women are very concerned about getting more women in congress, first woman president. Everyone knows we havent had the first woman president yet and other countries have. Margaret thatcher they know. This is something that thats an issue that young women in my generation are very concerned about. When it comes down to food, water, places to live, things like that i really just say that they have no idea what its like in some of these other countries is all. I would argue awareness is the first step. You cant get in to deep policy you cant deal with it in a flat way. Until you actually know that the problem is there. I think that is the beauty of this campaign and i think whats really interesting and very telling about a lot of again generationally but even in the country, for example, milala youngest woman ever for nobel prize. Having her on that International Stage to to point to the lack of education for women in pakistan and middle east was extremely powerful. I think, you know, all the debate on Cheryl Sandberg and the fact that she was a woman who was willing to stand up Start Talking about it. We need more women of color and women of other experiences and backgrounds to have similarly, i think storytelling is very powerful. Thats what this ad campaign does, it tells a story. Its visual. It draws audiences in. I think it could polarize things in countries around the world. That is to say if you confront people with that kind of way to try to take them out of their cultural patterns with women in a black and white way, in fact i was mystified, who are they aiming this at. Are they aiming it at those who use this language, are they aiming it at some of whom would also adopt this language . I dont know what theyre trying to get it with this. It reveals something but how do you use it . If you look at social media campaigns, look what is an happen ink egypt and other areas of the world, what it has done in terms of creating unanimous way for women, they are engaging because we see it gyp what all this organic search and what social media does is reveal the true voices of people in a society where theyre not allowed to talk about it. I think thats where the power is. All right. All right. Governor mary fallin, the first woman to serve as governor of oklahoma. She is now the third woman to chair the National Governors association. We sat down with governor fallin to discuss her plans in her new role. My initiative as the chair will be to focus on jobs and our economy, and basically working with education and our employers to close the skills gap between our employers to close the skills gap. And what type of skill sets our workers have. Governor fallin says her top priority is education. She says the National Governors association wants the controversial no child left behind act will be reauthorized. Fallin says that would help states for funding. In the meantime what the governors are doing is to Work Together to find the best practices, you know, what works best in our individual states and frankly what doesnt work as it relates to educational academic standards bringing more rigor to the classroom, being able to set goals and get specific results so we can have highly skilled educated workforce. Critics question fallins commitment to education. Oklahoma, reportedly leads all other states when it comes to cutting per capita education setting. Fallin insists that was done because state funding declined to emergency levels due to the recession. She hopes to boost education spending next year. This year we did dedicate a large portion of our new revenue that we had towards education, but along with funding issue also comes education reform. Having academic rigor, high standards, setting goals, expecting better results. Making sure that we align our education courses with what our employers need. Five states now have female governors, four of them are republicans. Governor fallin is the first republican woman to chair the nga but the third woman to lead the organization. Women bring different perspectives as it relates to talking about issues whether its on the state level or whether its in a National Position like the chair itself. But in the end the American People want to see is solutions to the problem. Women are assuming Political Office more often but still trail men considerably. Her advice for other women considering a run for office. Get involved in the community or work for other candidates. Even if youre married with children. As challenging as wives and mother to serve in Political Office, many tim women are raising children just like did i when i first started out in office i had a brand new baby and 3yearold in my first elected position. But i wanted to get out work on issues facing state of oklahoma and our oklahoma legislature. Fallin hopes she can be a role model r young girls. I can still remember some of my role models when i was a young girl, people that i admired that were in office. My mother, for example, was mayor of a little bitty town i grew up in. I always admired my mother and her service. Switch switch certainly ive watched other women wave the way for me to be ail to get to the position i am at today. We are hoping all women to get involved and make a difference in public policy. What kind of difference is she making not only as the governor, first female governor of her state but chair of the National Governors association . Well, you know, shes the first republican to the woman to be chair of the nga i think that that says a lot to women out there. I think that says lot to women who might be interested in running for office and that you can do it. Like she said she had a brand new baby when she ran for office. How impressive is that. That is very inspiring. I think her story will probably encourage other women to get involved. Very impressive. Becoming chair of the National Governors association has caused her to get education, who not only cut education but has not raised it. Let me tell you what is becoming chair of a Larger Organization will do for you. You will begin to think more broadly and i applaud her. Because that is going to be heard. Shes hardly going to be able to continue the hard line she took on education while she admonishes the governors from around the country to focus on educati. You cant focus on it without also focusing on what it costs. She actually has raised Education Funding subjects the emergency times that she was mentioning. More important than that is education policy that goes with it. She has been champion of educational choice and giving parents the opportunity to choose safe and effective schools, greater accountability to taxpayers for how those dollars are spent this is the most important part of the education equation how are the dollars spent and is it empowering those closest to the students to make the decision. I think the governorship something that we need to look at in terms of pipeline for women in general. What is wonderful about the womens caucus and women we see on the capitol hill is they come together in case that sometimes the men dont. And i think the governorship is a direct pipeline to the presidency a lot of cases. Seen a lot of governors become president of the United States. Im hoping that those numbers as we see more female governors on the rise and that again having other women in that role that inspire others, build them up by state is going to be really important stepping stone. Four are republicans. Why is it that republican women dominate as governors and Democratic Women dominate in congress . I think its the moment. I dont think that has historically been the case. You saw that the prior chairs were both democrats. I think what you need is more women like her who took a broader view. She is very different even with her very conservative background from the republicans and tea party take over we have. I think youve got women governors, the conservative governors in general are have very high favability. They are pro life. Standing for marriages, favor educational choice, favor accountability to taxpayers, by and large this is reflecting the tenor of these states that they and kind of conversation that americans want to be having right now. I was going to say im throwing this out there, too, as far as women governors go is that if i was running for governor i had children, it would be a little bit easier i think to run for governor than run for congress because youe constantly in washington, d. C. Where as governor you stay back in your home state and be with your family. Thats than interesting point. I had to tell you during this government shut up to the conversation that was being had was the problem weve gotten the divide the polarity of our country that the families are not living in washington, theyre not living together any more theyre going back, where as they used to stand on the soccer field side by side on saturdays made it easier to have a bipartisan conversation become very separate. I agree that being home in our states makes it a little easier for women with children. All right. Thats it for this edition of to the contrary. Please follow me on twitter bonnie erbe and tothecontrary and visit our pbs. Org tothecontrary where the discussion continues. Whether you agree or think, to the contrary, please join us next time. Funding for to the contrary provided by the Cornell Douglas foundation committed to encouraging stewardship of the environment, land conservation, watershed protection and eliminating harmful chemicals. Additional funding provided by the colcom foundation. The Wallace Genetic Foundation the e. Rhodes and leona b. Carpenter foundation. And by the charles a. Frueauff foundation. For a transcript or to see an online version of this episode of to the contrary please visit our pbs website at www. Pbs. Org tothecontrary. Beste, the kite runner and a thousand splendid suns. His newest is and the mountains echoed and its an instant hit. Khaled hosseini is coming up next on well read. Well read is made possible in part by the generous support of viewers like you. Thank you. [ music ] terry hi everybody, im terry tazioli. Thanks for joining us on well read. Khaled hosseini is our guest today and for lots and lots of readers thats all you have to say to get them to stay tuned or to sprint off to a bookstore, or a computer looking for his latest. He must have a new book out right . He does. Its called and the mountains echoed. Khaled hosseini thank you very much for being here. Khaled hosseini my pleasure. Terry its great to have you with us. Mine also. Khaled thank you. Terry so you get to start. You get to go first. Give us a little bit of a capsule of what the mountains echoed is all about. Khaled the book begins in 1952 with a pair of siblings. A little girl who is three and a boy who is ten who are absolutely in love with each other. And they are extremely close. And we first meet them, theyre with their father and they are crossing the desert and theyre headed for kabul. Neither child really knows why they are going to kabul really and what happens in kabul causes a rupture in their relationsp and that bond. It separates the brother from his sister and each of those two children becomes affected by this act in a distinct and different way throughout their lives, and it even kind of shapes the adults that they become. And then the book kind of spreads out from there. It branches out and looks at the lives of a series of other characters who are affected by, or connected to this seemingly simple act that happens in 1952. The overall effect being that its a series of different chapters that are linked, that overlap, and then together sort of synergistically Work Together to tell one big story. Terry and i know youve mentioned this to others, and i think that even you wrote about this, that am i right that the book started with an image . Khaled yes. Terry of a man walking across a desert. I think im right, pulling a wagon. Khaled yeah. Yeah. Terry where did that come from . Khaled i have no idea. I have no idea where it came from. I mean i had been thinking about writing another book and i more or less spent most of 2008 and 2009 kind of lost in the wilderness without any kind of ideas that really appealed to me. And this one just kind of e out of the blue more or less and beautifully deliberate, almost in full clarity. And it was this guy walking in the desert and hes pulling one of those rad flyer red wagons and theres a little girl inside. And a few paces behind theres a boy shadowing them and theyre going some place. And where theyre going is going to change the lives of all these three characters. I didnt know why, or how, or what was going to happen. To me its just a process of discovery. Terry does lots of your writing begin with images like that or characters . With kite runner and with splendid suns were there otr images or were they just stories that presented themselves to you . Khaled the kite runner was born out of a news story that i saw about the taliban banning kite flying. And i just had this picture of two boys flying a kite sometime in the 1970s in kabul and i began working on that. And i wrote a short story about those two boys. Of course it did not go at all the way i thought it was going to go. I thought it was going to be became this whole other thi. The second book was a little different because the second book there was more of an agenda with t because i did want to talk about this big topic of the struggle of women in afghanistan. So in that book it began with a big idea and i narrowed it down to this story about the friendship between those two women. But with my other two books they both began very small and snowballed so its the opposite kind of process. Terry ok. You left afghanistan when you were fifteen years old . Khaled yeah actually i left when i was eleven. I went to paris with my family where my father was stationed and came to the states when i was fifteen. Terry when you were fifteen, ok. You must still have a connection. Khaled oh yes. Terry what is it . Khaled i was born there. You know i spent a number of my formative years there. When i go to kabul now, and ive
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