The american homeland. It was chilling for all of us beheading of jim foley and steven sotloff. I was reminded of another beheading of danny pearl. That was done by mohamed, the principal operational architect of 9 11. Its the same etiology, just a lot more capability. Ryan and i were reminiscing about being in beirut together 32 years ago during the lebanonese civil war. And one of the things i learned from that experience was watching the marines come into lebanon. One of the conclusions i drew from that experience is when you have no Political Center then everyone is aside. And the minute you intervene in beirut 30 years ago when there was no Political Center, the marines became another side. In fact the lebanonese used to call them the american militia. What ryans suggesting or what i was suggest in my column today is without an iraqi in Effect NationalUnity Coalition of sunnis, kurds and shiites, that we can be fighting for that to defend iraqi National Unity and pluralistic future, not fighting on behalf of the shiites and let alone the shiites backer ruin. Rose one conclude with the film the cosmopolitans. Hey you think es downstairs. No. They will arrive at any moment and they have paid for the entirety apartment. All i could do was nothing. You had the one place. The secret for me happened to fall into that world with a group of very funny people, main funny. They could have earned their living with jokes but they didnt. These are exception interesting characters, i think. Rose ryan crocker, tom friedman and whit stilliman when we continue. Theres a saying around here you stand behind what you say. Around here, we dont make excuses, we make commitments. And when you cant live up to them, you own up and make it right. Some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where its needed most. But i know youll still find it, when you know where to look. Rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg. A provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose we begin this evening with the president in europe trying to deal with two crises, the threat of russia in ukraine and the threat of isis in iraq. A video emerged of german es steven sotolff being beheaded, the second american hostage to be executed in two weeks. They have increased pressure on president obama to make more decisive action. The president addressed the situation earlier today in alstonia. Whatever these murderers think they will achieve by killing americans like steven, they have already failed. They failed because like people around the World Americans are repulsed by their barberrism. We will not be intimidated. Their acts unite us to stiffen and take the fights against these terrorists. And those who make the mistake of harming americans will learn we will not forget and that our reach is long and that justice will be served. Rose joining me now from tax a and m university is ryan crocker hes the dean of the school of government and Public Service at texas a m. Hes a former United States ambassador to iraq, syria and afghan staw. From washington tom friedman a Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for the new york times. His ready column is ready, aim, fire, not fire, ready aim. Im pleased to have both of them on this program at this important time. Thank you november coming, tom in washington and ryan in texas. Ryan let me begin with you. You have said that the rise of isis presents the greatest threat to the United StatesNational Security since 9 11. Lets assume thats true for a moment. What should we do . I think we need to take a number of interrelated steps. First we need to step up the tempo of air strikes in iraq, and we need to introduce them into syria as soon as weve got verified targets. Isis embraced the border between iraq and syria. We should take them up on it. Secondly, weve got to have a political sense, if you will. Weve got to be in overdrive with the iraqis to help them form an inclusive government that will bring the sunnis back into coalition with the kurds and the shia and present a common front on the ground to isis. Third, we need to be also in overdrive on forming a regional and International Coalition. Weve got some opportunities coming up with the nato summit tomorrow and friday. Second kerry and hagel will be traveling to the region. This isnt just our problem, this is a problem for the world and the world needs to step up to it. There are some things i think we shouldnt do. I think we really have to be careful about even the perception of an association with iran. That will be highly problematic for our sunni allies and likely to cause the iraqi sunnis to withdraw even further from the process. Similarly weve got to be very clear that we are not intervening in syria in support of the assad regime. We interfere for a grave threat to our own National Security. Rose you seem to correct me if im wrong to a threat to our National Security. How do you see the moment and what should we do . Well, the point i was making this morning was simply that isis today cannot threaten the american homeland. That was simply the point i was making. So that meant for me that we have time to sit back and design the very kind of strategy that ryans talking about. And as he laid out, this is really complicated and has to be done in a thoughtful and delicate way. First of all, it requires a platform in a sense a political platform that we can stand on to launch military operations again. Before you sat down in the chair, charlie, ryan and i were reminiscing about being in beirut together 32 years ago during the lebanonese civil war. And one of the things i learned from that experience was watching the marines come into lebanon and one of the conclusions i drew from that experience is when you have no Political Center then everyone is aside. And the minute you intervene in beirut, 30 years ago when theres no Political Center, the marines became another side. In fact the lebanonese used to call them the american militia. And what ryans suggesting and what i was suggesting in my column today is that without an iraqi in Effect NationalUnity Coalition of sunnis, kurds and shiites we will be fighting for that, unity and pluralistic future not fighting on beof the shiites or let alone the shiites backer iran. Without that National Unity platform intervening effectively in the isis problem in a way that will create a basis for some kind of political framework to be in place after we would leave, after the intervention would be over, without that platform, you really are going to have a problem. Thats why this is so difficult. The only thing i was reacting to this morning is that isis doesnt pose an immediate strategic threat to the american homeland, therefore not that we have years to deal with this problem but we have time to think this through because this is really complicated. Rose it seems to me that you both articulating the point of view of the president of the United States. Why am i wrong about that, ryan . I hope youre not wrong. What all of this takes, what tom and i have described in slightly different ways is one key thing. American leadership. I hope very much the president when he goes to wales is going to articulate whats at stake here, why theres got to be an International Coalition and again a process of forming it and of leading it. So i hope were in complete sync but so far we havent seen that American Leadership yet. It starts with a vision and its followed by a plan. We need both, we need to know. I would take exception with tom on one thing. I think isis today is stronger, better armed, better funded and more experienced than the alqaeda Osama Bin Laden that brought us 9 11. There are thousands of them who have western passports, including americans. So i certainly wouldnt bet the Capitol Building that they are unable at the present time to carry out an operation against the american homeland. It was chilling for all of us beheading of jim foley and steven sotloff. Its the same etiology, just a lot more capability. Rose tom, where do you think the president is . Well you know, i think ryans point about kind of forceful leadership on this issue is valid. I think that what hes been focused on is that without a, again, a kind of Political Coalition there of sunni shiites and kurds that can form the political backbone and foundation for any American Intervention we not only become either the shiite air force or Iranian Air Force but after we leave, anything we achieve militarily would not be sustainable. There would not be political framework to fill it in a sense. Whatever sweep away of isis. And so i think thats what hes wrestling with, and i could glean myself. Rose as you pointed out, tom, in todays column i think. As for iran, if we defeat isis it will be the third time since 2001 that we defeated a key sunni counter balance to iran, first the taliban then iran and now isis. Its a reason to do in a way that does not detract us from the fact that Irans Nuclear program also needs to be diffused otherwise it could undermine the whole global nonproliferation region regime and thats tricky. Ryan, the interesting thing about this is that the recent advances against isis have included Iraqi Militia that have been funded in the past by iran. Iran seems to have a stake in this and a big time stake. And thats why i think as tom and i have both pointed out, we have got to be extremely careful not to look like an ally of iran or their pretty awful selection of militias. I think we do that as tom and i have both suggested, by ensuring that there is a solid iraqi Political Foundation that includes sunnis, shia and kurds. I think theyre symbiotic. I think when the iraqis see us swing into action against the common enemy its going to help their political process. I would underscore, youre not going to get that Political Foundation by leaving it to the iraqis to do themselves. Were a hard wired into the system, it only works when were fully and heavily engaged, thats why secretary kerrys visit was owe important and its going to take continued engagement. I know the whitehouse has been working the phones. Theyre going to have to keep at that to get that necessary foundation. Rose tom, your column says ready aim fire not fire ready aim. Do i detect and im trying to get at how people can understand what we can do mao now and. Ryan seems to say we cant wait for these foundations to develop. There is a military necessity now and we have to act on that premise. I dont disagree. Thats why i used accompany in conjunction with and the two go together. When people see us put skin in the game and lead, they will respond to that. But it is tricky because there is the point where they will also say well hold your coat. And thats why its got to be really in tandem. Im all for hitting isis targets in iraqi for that matter in syria. I think its, they should have no sanctuary. But i want to make sure we do that always in conjunction with them also doing the political and military equivalent on their side because their ability to have a jury responsibility and not make the hard political choices is expansive and you only need to ask the former u. S. Am bass ambassador to iraqi about that. Rose how do we define our relationship with him in terms of what our policy has been over the last couple years . Ryan. Well, i said from the beginning that simply saying that assad must go isnt a policy. The fact of the matter is assad wasnt going three years ago and hes not going today. That said, it is a pretty horrible regime. Tom and i both know it, i spent three years there. I think we do have to make clear on any decision to intervene militarily in syria that we are in no way supporting the Syrian Regime in this and we can catalog their sins. That would be a good idea. We are defending our own National Interest against a mortal enemy. Now that said, i think if we are able to degrade isis in syria to some significant degree, the primary beneficiary would likely be more moderate elements of the sunni opposition. Isis has done more damage to them frankly than hes done to assad. It could also create a climate in which many who stand with assad not because they like him, they dont. They feel the alternative is worse if they no longer saw isis as that mortal threat to them. You can see a dynamic developing within the regime community that could make change possible, could make negotiation possible and why not be wildly optimistic. Could make a settlement possible, we sure dont have those circumstances now. Rose tom. I dont feel myself, charlie, im going to defer to ryan on that one, that i have a good grasp of the internal dynamics inside syria right now but i know one thing is necessary, surely not sufficient. And that is, you know, if youre going to be in this game, you got to be in to win. And you cannot be recognizing borders against an enemy that doesnt recognize borders itself. And so i think once we do feel we have political allies in the region, to work with us in tandem, you got to take the fight to them. You got to hurt them and you got to hurt them wherever they are. Rose this is what i cant get beyond. When do we have, when are we confident we have political allies in the region. What is the necessary point that we reach before we do everything we can to attack isis without troops on the ground but attacking isis and in conjunction with other forces on the ground. Whats necessary now and what is the danger of waiting . Well bear minimum would be an iraqi captain, an Iraqi Government which i understand theyre still forming. Rose what do you think of the new Prime Minister . Tbd, charlie. He comes from the same party as maliki. Ryan probably knows him, you should ask him. Rose ryan . I do know him, not well. Hes out of the party and i see nothing to suggest he doesnt support their ideology but he doesnt want to repeat the same mistakes maliki made. I would be carbonly all mystic and they have influence is going to be essential to that process. They will not get it done on their own. Again i would argue this is complicated. You really cant have a sequence of events. You have to move on multiple fronts, militarily and politically at the same time. Ive argued that military action is going to foster political process, not hinder it. The sunnis have been in the forefront of begging for active military intervention. I talked to people out in anbar who have been fighting isis since the spring, and theyre afraid theyre going to lose ramadi, the capital of anbar unless we do more and do it quickly. So the one thing that iraqi seems to be able to agree on at this point is American Military action is pretty important. Youve got to galvanize the region. Now King Abdullah had a statement that we should repeat back to him when he says that isis will be in europe this month and the United States the month after. Well, okay, your majesty, lets get on with it together. Rose is this in a broader way a defining moment. I mean, i know secretary kissingers got a new book coming out about sort of the sense of world order, but not so much that point but a finer point about how decisive this as a moment in terms of that will influence the rest of the middle east, history in the same way say that the end of world war ii did. I dont want to stretch this too far but you both know too much not to ask the question. If i could take a shot at that, i think it can be a defining moment and that definition could run either way. What will define the moment in my view is the strength and the capability of American Leadership. Are we going to show the same kind of leadership we did after world war ii and shape a post cold war order. Or are we going to sit back and let the centrifugal forces take over the process. Charlie, one of the reasons this is such a mess is our friends in the region, are all over the place. The saudis and qataris are backing different factions and different fights. The uae is on one page with egypt, turkey is on another page. I think theres a reason for that and the reason is, we have not exercised the kinds of sustained regional diplomacy to get everybody on the same page. I look at what we did in the first floor with george h. W. Bush. A Regional Coalition including of all thing a syrian division. And an International Coalition. That would not have happened without extremely strong and sustained president ial leadership. Thats what we need now. I think the future of the region and our own security pivots on whether thats deployed and how it is managed. I think theres one difference between the 1991 Gulf War Coalition which i got to see assembled from the back of secretary of state bakers airplane. And today. And it is a problem that obama has differed from george h. W. Bush and his predecessors. And that is they were still dealing with hard states, solid states. So much of what obama is dealing with are states that have come unstuck. And so you arent just required to kind of lead them that right direction. Theres an element almost of having to build their coherence. And thats where i think you know, why this is a defining moment, charlie, is that you know, w