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They are saying, and all of that means the bill will add to the debt much more than it looks like on paper. >> john: they say it's paired down to $3.5 trillion but when you look at the artificial sunset dates and want to make it permanent, we're back up to the $3.5 trillion. >> everything rides on the what the congressional budget office tells us when they look at the details of the policies because we haven't seen those details yet which is another reason why it's premature to cast a vote until we know what's in the bills but by the rough estimates that we can pull together from what looks li...

Not get to dictate future of our country. his opposition to the bick back better act is anti-black, anti-child, ant immigrant and anti-black. the longer this goes on the more you'll see that in the democratic family that's not pretty. >> that's exactly right. i don't think we could have heard congresswoman jayapal say that they were trusting the president more times than she did during that interview on cnn this morning. this is a change in strategy. this is after progressives have already agreed to shaving down this bill from $3.5 trillion to $1.75 at the request of joe manchin, bejoe manchin...

A clarity on what this bill stands for. of course, we want senator manchin to have that as well. my view is that we have no pay for's, no understanding of the $2.3 trillion conglomerate that the trump tax cut -- that we're still hurting from. we'll have a cbo in right order. there is no, no concern that we'll not be able to pay for this bill. it's at 1.75, and the bill back, the bipartisan infrastructure is under that. we're responsible legislators. we're democrats. we believe in democracy and transparency and what you've seen is what we've not seen with the friends on the other side of the ai...

In a few years that's how we'll talk about this. every plank of the agenda being considered is wildly popular, reaching numbers you can't just get with democrats it's also republicans and most independentlies. -- independents. so once americans see it hit their checkbook that's where you will see the american people say oh, yes this really does effect me and my family. >> why isn't what jess has been saying, how it's been sold all along, michael? >> they try to blame the media for this, that's fixated on the bottom line but the legislatures have been fixated on the bottom line. it hasn't been ...

Tuesday they've done it before all the results from virginia and also means there will be a competing headline wednesday if the worst happens to virginia, if they get over the finish line and passed the heart of biden's domestic agenda i think some of the bad feelings over the messiness of the process will fade. >> just real quickly do you think the forget how messy this is been in the focus that he ended up with a one point to trillion and other infrastructure bill and 1.75. >> is not as much as it progresses wanted but it's a lot of money. chris: thank you panel see you next sunday, the powe...