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BBC News

not have a system that supports victims, that listens to their voices. and when they don't challenge the system, unfortunately, the organisation closes ranks. it protects the organisation. institutional protection and covering up what is really going on is what i am hearing today. i'm hearing those at the top of these organisations saying that things are now better before we are currently supporting in the foundation, over 371 victims today who say they are still being felt by gmp and their voices are silenced. we support them now to try and be heard, to go into the system and make a complaint. they will go to professional standards, and as i repeatedly say, it is police marking their own

Victims , System , Voices , Organisation-closes-ranks , The-system , Things , Organisations , Protection , Organisation , Top , Gmp , Foundation

The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

possible. now, give credit to bill well, the former massachusetts governor, who i talk to you about this while costa and i were working on this book. he was handed the criminal division in the justice department, and the reagan administration. all of what had happened, that trump had done, he said to me, look, this is 18 usc, 371. subverting the lawful function of government. i remember thinking about that, talking to people, as we know, some of trump's greatest, biggest supporters, like senator lindsey graham, bailed out on him because they looked at all this evidence, and in fact, lindsey graham had his counsel on the judiciary committee at that time.

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

they approached this case? >> you know, that certainly is possible. now, give credit to bill well, the former massachusetts governor, who i talk to you about this while costa and i were working on this book. he was handed the criminal division in the justice department, and the reagan administration. all of what had happened, that trump had done, he said to me, look, this is 18 usc, 371. subverting the lawful function of government. i remember thinking about that, talking to people, as we know, some of trump's greatest, biggest supporters, like senator lindsey graham, bailed out on him because they looked at all this evidence, and in fact, lindsey graham had his counsel on the judiciary

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The Mehdi Hasan Show

conspiracy. >> this isn't that hard to follow. donald trump is being put on trial not for what he said but for what he did. number two, they say that donald trump is being indicted for defrauding the united states. but what he did doesn't meet the legal definition of fraud. conservative national review magazine put out an editorial slamming the ind said, as the supreme court reaffirmed a few weeks ago, fraud and federal criminal law as a scheme to swindle victims out of money or tangible property. yeah, but they got the wrong statute. sorry, guys, that was wire fraud. as long as ken white and ryan goodman on twitter have pointed out, the indictment charges trump with defrauding the u.s. until 18 u.s. section 371. here's how the supreme court defines defraud under that statute. quote, to just conspired to defraud the united states means primarily to the government out of property or money, but it also means to interfere with or obstruct one of its lawful government functions by deceit,

Trial , Conspiracy , United-states , Trump , Defrauding , Isn-t , Two , Money , Fraud , Criminal-law , Doesn-t , Property

Inside Politics With Dana Bash

broad principles and says, well, we have the electoral system, where states will each have votes on presidents, but it doesn't lay out the mechanics of things will happen on december 14th and june 6th and so on. i think he's saying that because the president with as tinkering with that none of that's expressly prohibited by the constitution so it's just a technical -- to paula he is a point it's a little confusing where they're going with it. >> and those counts aren't counts of violating the constitution. they are counts of violating u.s. federal criminal laws. 18 usc 371. i mean, there's -- he's conflating the two to try to say, look, it was a -- >> that's an interesting point. important point. >> -- it was a trivial argument about dates, about just postponing the count from this day to that day. it's not trivial, but that's not actually what he's been charged with. >> both of this and the aspirational thing, it -- you know, at the heart of their defense is going to be we were

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The Mehdi Hasan Show

craft, or trickery. and that is what trump did. that's how he allegedly conspired to defraud the u.s.. not in a financial way, but a very political and anti-democratic way. it's a felony under section 371 to do that. number three, this is politicized justice say the republicans, this is the target of their political opponent. and what about hunter biden? just have a read of a gop senator tim scott tweeted on tuesday in response to the indictment. quote, i remain concerned about the weaponization by biden's doj, what we see today are two different tracks of justice, one for political opponents and another for the sign of the current president. he continued, we are watching biden's doj continue to hunt republicans while protecting democrats. hunter republicans. hunter republicans. why haven't all the republican candidates running for president, including tim scott, been indicted? including especially trump's own vice president, mike pence?

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The Mehdi Hasan Show

and that is what trump did. that's how he allegedly conspired to defraud the u.s.. not in a financial way, but a very political and anti-democratic way. it's a felony under section 371 to do that. number three, this is politicized justice say the republicans, this is the target of their political opponent. and what about hunter biden? just have a read of a gop senator tim scott tweeted on tuesday in response to the indictment. quote, i remain concerned about the weaponization by biden's doj, what we see today are two different tracks of justice, one for political opponents and another for the sign of the current president. he continued, we are watching biden's doj continue to hunt republicans while protecting democrats. protecting democrathunter republicans. hunter republicans. why haven't all the republican candidates running for president, including tim scott, been indicted? including especially trump's own vice president, mike pence? why only the candidate who try to overturn the election?

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The Mehdi Hasan Show

follow. donald trump is being put on trial not for what he said but for what he did. number two, they say that donald trump is being indicted for defrauding the united states. but what he did doesn't meet the legal definition of fraud. conservative national review magazine put out an editorial slamming the indictment and said, as the supreme court reaffirmed a few weeks ago, fraud and federal criminal law as a scheme to swindle victims out of money or tangible property. yeah, but they got the wrong statute. sorry, guys, that was wire fraud. as long as ken white and ryan goodman on twitter have pointed out, the indictment charges trump with defrauding the u.s. until 18 u.s. section 371. here's how the supreme court defines defraud under that statute. quote, to just conspired to defraud the united states means primarily to the government out of property or money, but it also means to interfere with or obstruct one of its lawful government functions by deceit, craft, or trickery.

Trial , United-states , Doesn-t , Trump , Defrauding , Two , Excuse , Money , Fraud , Criminal-law , Property , Victims

FOX and Friends

18.2, 18 usc section 1512 a. also 1512, what is this? statutes that were passed in 2002. do you know what they are called? the enron statutes. to fill a gap that was -- that they felt needed to be applied because they didn't have what was necessary to charge certain executives with obstructing justice. this has nothing to do with what took place on january 6th or before january 6th or after january 6th. this matter that they have used against protesters on january 6th is extremely controversial and the supreme court hadn't decided it yet but cases are going to the supreme court on these counts. how dare this prosecutor use these statutes against a former president of the united states. then we have count 1, 18 usc 371, cheating the government, interfering with legitimate

Statutes , Section , What-is-this- , Usc , 18 , 2002 , 1512 , 18-2 , Nothing , Place , Gap , Obstructing-justice

The Lead With Jake Tapper

all of those fit in different ways, but they fit nicely. and the secotion 371 charge, its important to know it doesn't really matter whether donald trump thinks that in some broad sense the election was stolen from him. the fact -- what matters is the fact that he used lies to fix what he perceived to be a problem, if he perceived to be a problem. i agree with bolton, i agree with barr that trump clearly understood that he lost the election, he was told that by multiple people. the fact of the matter is if -- just because you think you were wrong, it's the two wrongs don't make a right thing that bolton referred to. doesn't mean that you can use lies to overcome the problem. and the analogy i like to use is the o.j. case. not the murder case, but the case in which he was sent to jail for in nevada where he thought these items, these memorabilia items that he was trying to get back, belonged to him rightfully.

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