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The collapse of our aaa rating, and our solvency and government, and the end of the world as we know it. >>guest: that is not true. i am pleased to call myself a cosponsor, one of the original cosponsors of senator toomey's legislation protecting the faith and credit of the united states by making sure that we don't default on our obligations. >>neil: but that is the one, senator, that is the one where toomey said when we are in that brink, we may sure we pay our most important obligations first which are debt service, we pay the note holders and the bondholders and science we are getting the ...

Where moody's is saying they're going to downgrade our aaa rating, which is going to mean the money we borrowed on $14.5 trillion, instead of being historically low rates, going to be at high rates, which means that the $14.5 million debt becomes a $20 million debt. mike, this is basic math. basic banking. what does barack obama not get? >> you know, i don't think about it a whole lot. because it's a little -- >> because it's a serious subject. why don't we just talk about what tracy morgan said? >> maybe members of congress, individual members of congress and maybe even the president of the u...

See the conflict of interest between the ratings agencies and the banks which al franken so admirably tried to address that obvious conflict but it appears to have hit a roadblock in the conference? >> i think that's unfortunate. i think, obviously, there is a huge conflict of interest. look, dylan, if i hired you and said i want a aaa rating and you say, bernie, it's only a single "a," don't bother to come back to me. you're going to give me a good rating. as i recall, 92% of the subprime mortgages were rated aaa, and they ended up being junk. >> let's turn our attention to oil. you attempted...

Risk. >> it's more than that. it's the national capital. in other words, people are exploiting their aaa-rating to accumulate risk beyond anything they can bear and transferring that risk to our government. it's like taxing capital effectively. here's my question for you. you look at this bill. the blanche lincoln proposal. if you look at the reality check that's necessary, we don't have the political courage to do it. do you agree with that? >> i do. i think at this time people have to get back to the old traditional ways of what wall street is all about. >> which is what? >> capital formatio...

>> it's pretty scary they give you a aaa rating and it turns out to be junk and it's not encouraging. >> that's it. it's the underlying investors and underlying mortgages that were propping up the securities. if you looked underneath, you found bbbb, you found that the mortgages were almost guaranteed to fail and yet they were still going out and selling the things. >> we have to step back and learn from the mistakes and make sure they don't happen again. i fear, though, that they are not learning as much as they should. lisa, thank you. jack cafferty is coming up with "the cafferty file." ...