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Children as pawns and hostages. first to try to pressure congress into changing the law. he is now defying it. then to persuade some of these asylum seekers to leave the country ifhey are reunited. there is no plan for reunionification. and there is deepening chaos and confusion, even among the border agents, the border patrol agents and the u.s. customs and board eprotection agents who say we need more judges. we need more resources to effectively and fairly enforce the law. so abandoning and abrogating due process has consequences not only financially but also morally. >> but let me ask you ...

>> have i with me legendary newsman dan rather, the author of "what utes us: reflections on patriotism." there is oh, it's never been this bad, it's knotts normal. i always like to check in with you and you have witnessed a long arc of american history. what do you make about the president of the united states publicly stating we don't need laws and we don't need judges and we don't need due process? >> well, thanks for having me here, chris. first of all, we need to see clearly and not have what i call outrage fatigue there have been so many outrages one on top of the other. the tendency is t...

An extra legal and nonreviewable deportation force that can patriotic people out of the country with no judicial review. there any reason to believe such a thing is constitutional or b, would not result in american citizens being deported? >> it will be challenged. it will be found illegal and unconstitutional. when and if it's challenged. but more broadly and fundamentally, this country is heading for a train wreck at the border because beyond those due process issues arising with respect to the asylum seekers at the ports of entry and the due process hearings, we're also threatening, i say w...

We have an oversight responsibility. the judiciary committee where i sit should be having hearings this week to hold accountable the officials for turning away those asylum seekers, in effect denying them the credible fear hearing that they're entitled to receive if they're in this country. and abrogating due process. remember, due process is not only about fundamental fairness and the rule of law, it's also about making sure that determinations are accurate. because in many instances, if we unfairly and inaccurately deny asylum, we are in effect very likely condemning these people to death, t...

In courtrooms. suing over it and telling and talking to reporters about it. they were the point of contact while this policy was happening behind closed doors in a black box and children were being ripped from their parents. natalia cornelio, thank you for what you're doing. >> that's exactly right. >> have i with me legendary newsman dan rather, the author of "what utes us: reflections on patriotism." there is oh, it's never been this bad, it's knotts normal. i always like to check in with you and you have witnessed a long arc of american history. what do you make about the president of the u...