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Government operation. there are no patches on arms, no official uniforms, no acknowledgements by governmental officials. and yet it has all the hallmarks of a russian intelligence operation whose mission and purpose we can speculate about, but certainly it was to cause chaos, stir up problems for the united states at sensitive moment. maybe it was sort of this revenge for what the united states has tried to do them in their elections, and yet it still maintains this veneer of denieb deniablety. >> what stands out is particularly the level of detail. i'm struck by the fact this is reminder once...

Times. how is it if you're writing about the campaign you didn't have any flynn anecdotes? >> this book and what we talk about in the book is about the trump campaign and the trump rise and what the president saw. what the candidate saw. and what the reaction was of the american people. what we don't talk about, chuck, look, this isn't a book about corey lewandowski or dave bossie, this is about what the president tapped into so all the ancillary players aren't mentioned, of course. the person who was the most important factor in the presidential election is the president of the united states ...

Moments according to that transcript where schiff was pushing carter page on what he said and producing an e-mail, in effect, do you remember writing this. these contradictions and the e-mails they were in possession of, does that put page in any sort of legal jeopardy? >> i think it's certainly possible. carter page testified for five hours under oath for house committee without a lawyer. which is pretty extraordinary. and not generally recommended. and as you said, you know, he had to make some admissions that really contradicted his long-standing story that this july 2016 trip to moscow is ...

Part of this russia investigation. both paul manafort, the former campaign chair, and mike flynn, the ousted national security adviser, of course, no longer associated, not just with the white house but with the campaign. so this is a big deal because he's perhaps the closest add swriz adviser to the president which makes him one of the most powerful men in this country right now. i was speaking to senior aides at the white house today, and they cast it this way saying when the president gets back here, they want to be prepared for, as it was described to me, this new reality, with the acknowl...

White house that kind of gauzy acknowledgements of common interests in fighting terrorism are all well and good but what we need is actual commitments and troops in the middle east, bombing missions, we need intelligence support. and those things i'm not sure are coming out of nato just yet. >> bill: interesting because the secretary general pretty much admitted that. nato needs to take a bigger role. this is on their door steps. they have to confront it. >> they do. and i think many of those states, particularly in western europe, are just not politically at a point where they can confront it...