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Position. if the shoe were on the other foot, people would be taking the position. it's because it's an unpopular president. what you can do to an unpopular president today you could have done to hillary clinton yesterday and you can do to somebody else tomorrow. that's why the danger is so great. >> al said a lot of things. if donald trump wants to pardon somebody he can pardon somebody. it is a very different thing to offer a public pardon than it is on february 14th, to send the vice president and the attorney general out of the room and then secretly and recognizing the impropriety of what...

Don't investigation my friend and adviser, mike flynn. that could easily be interpreted as acting corruptly. the federal statutes are full of words like corruptly, wrongfully, and evaluations of every other citizen's conduct can be evaluated by those standards. they also should be able to evaluate the president's conduct. i don't know -- i don't know -- >> jeff, let me -- >> i'm sorry, go ahead, yes. >> let me just ask you about this "washington post" report about mueller probing jared kushner's business dealings. how significant is that? >> it is potentially very significant, but it is also e...

Like right now with the challenges and trying to contain president trump? >> the challenges from the outside seem to be just overwhelming. the president has certainly behaved in ways that can fairly be characterized as inappropriate. he has breached protocols. he shouldn't be behaving the way he has toward the intelligence community, law enforcement or the military. that said, i don't think we have a pry ma fascia clear kacase of obstruction of justice. the president has to act corruptly to have that. it is not clear he is acting corruptly. there is a pretty powerful suggestion here that not o...

Of events. >> that's correct. that's so important. remember, james comey only knows so much until he's no longer the director of the fbi. at that point in time the question becomes whether the president acting corruptly to influence or interfere. by his own admissions, by his own statements of the press, he talks about the decision to terminate james comey partly in basis on his investigation into the russia collusion. that is the point in time you're talking about. that's why the big guns at large that eric has intelligently talked about have come up. the point in time, the fixation of trump ...

Of the target. you've got to know that it was acting corruptly, and you've got to have a nexus between the effort to impede an investigation and the actual conduct of that investigation. that is emphatically not to say that those things will not come to be proven. but at this moment, to say that we're there is simply incorrect. i think, frankly, going to the end of this -- and this is, remember, all in the context of a process that is legal but intensely political. there isn't going to be a courtroom appearance, and the $64,000 question is to be whether or not in that political process, becaus...