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An acting title, at some point we'll have an active interior secretary, we have an acting epa director. there are no deputies at the department of homeland security, at hud or the va. this is an incredibly vulnerable time for this administration to have all these positions unfilled or staffed by people with acting titles, alex. >> it is quite extraordinary. i hadn't thought about it in that perspective, but i agree 100%. let's also talk about the latest offer from the white house to reopen the now shuttered government, at least partially so. where does that stand? >> well, the first thing folk...

What he's done. >> that's true. mick mulvaney is very shrewd operator. he's not dumb. i think in an effort to maintain some post-trump world credibility, he asked for the acting title. it's actually not beyond me to imagine that mick mulvaney knows he can be subpoenaed or forced to testify as omb director. he knows exactly how damaging this job can be to anyone's career. he's seen the 62% turn over rate or 64% at this administration. he has chosen -- he's publicly admitted he will motte try to correct trump. med h heading into the worth truunnelf president trump's presidency. i think he knows ...

Trump is a good person, mulvaney certainly isn't the odd man out on that. but i really can't think of a time in washington where there's been so much uncertainty. whether there's a government shut down six days from now, uncertainty about what our trade policy is and whether there's a trade war with china, uncertainty about what the mueller investigation is going to bring and the president now has an acting chief of staff. this is a president who needs a chief of staff more than any president in recent history but who simply won't let somebody do the job. we're at a fascinating juncture in ame...

David and kelsey. the fact that the first choice for chief of staff, nick ayers, the reason those talks broke down is because he wanted the acting title and trump didn't. why do you think he accepted it with mulvaney? is it just to squash any perception that nobody wants the job? >> it may just be that. there are other candidates who said no or have been turned down since ayers said he didn't want the job, and it may also to be to put a little ease with people in congress because mulvaney has an odd relationship with folks up there, particularly with democrats. >> he was there for six years. >...

Or second choice. but what mick mulvaney does have over those other individuals is he will be relatively unassume anything this white house. can you imagine a donald trump presidency with a chris cristie chief of staff? you know, when you had these two alpha males, these bulls in china shops, for lack of a better term, that would have been amazing television. i'm not afraid of mulvaney being able to push through his policies. i think he is the one that wanted the acting title because right now to be completely honest it seems as if every job in washington, d.c., belongs to either mick mulvaney...