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Lessening the prison population, toward affording prosecutorial and charging discretion in a way that might lead to shorter sentences or fewer sentences. in a lot of unexpected places. in a lot of red states. he talked about texas, for example, and other southern republican-controlled states that have made reforms to their criminal justice system. is that -- obviously that's politically important for trying to get a change like this to stick. is that a sign this is actually becoming less of a partisan combat, this is becoming something that's treated sort of more technocratically? >> i think i...

Kinds of reforms are critically necessary. but our instincts after 40 years of mass incarceration make it very hard for politicians to actually pass the laws that produce the amount of time that people spend in prison. so we've been looking for leadership, and i think what he's done today is significant leadership. i think it has the possible of being replicated in states which is where we really need it. we have to remember that only 10% of the people incarcerated in this country are in the federal system. most of our mass imprisonment problem is in the states. and this decision won't directl...

Toward affording prosecutorial and charging discretion in a way that might lead to shorter sentences or fewer sentences. in a lot of unexpected places. in a lot of red states. he talked about texas, for example, and other southern republican-controlled states that have made reforms to their criminal justice system. is that -- obviously that's politically important for trying to get a change like this to stick. is that a sign this is actually becoming less of a partisan combat, this is becoming something that's treated sort of more technocratically? >> i think it is. there are a lot of people o...