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Uh, we have the gfw. it's a great firewall and it blocked a lot of, uh, important information websites inside china and a lot of people they cannot get the cutting-edge technologies. >> anthony: right. >> thomas: which we don't teach in college at all. >> anthony: mm-hmm. >> thomas: and, uh, so the human resource problem and the manpower problem is more and more serious, getting more and more serious here in china. >> anthony: because everyone is going to the silicon valley. >> thomas: uh, they offer better. >> anthony: right. >> thomas: obviously. oh, here they did -- >> anthony: oh, these ar...

Other friends who, like, who love cooking as well. >> anthony: legally, there might be something wrong with it. but morally, do you think there's anything wrong with, like, you're essentially breaking in to a -- an information base. >> thomas: yes. >> anthony: i'm not doing any damage. i'm gonna go in, i'm gonna look around, i'm gonna see how things work. and i'll leave without disturbing anything. would most hackers say that that's okay? >> thomas: yes. yes. >> anthony: it's in the service of knowledge, that's -- >> thomas: that's okay for most the hackers in our communities. i was lucky, i g...

>> legally, there might be something wrong with it. but morally, do you think is there's anything wrong with like -- you're essentially breaking into an information base? >> yes. >> i'm not doing anything. i'm going to go in, look around, see how things work and i'll leave without disturbing anything. would most hackers say that's okay? >> yes. >> it's in the service of knowledge? that's okay? >> okay for most the hackers in our communities. i was lucky. i got into a very big hacker community here in shanghai and met a lot of great mentors. >> you started in business at 21. >> in factory. >> q...

Other friends who, like, who love cooking as well. >> anthony: legally, there might be something wrong with it. but morally, do you think there's anything wrong with, like, you're essentially breaking in to a -- an information base. >> thomas: yes. >> anthony: i'm not doing any damage. i'm gonna go in, i'm gonna look around, i'm gonna see how things work. and i'll leave without disturbing anything. would most hackers say that that's okay? >> thomas: yes. yes. >> anthony: it's in the service of knowledge, that's -- >> thomas: that's okay for most the hackers in our communities. i was lucky, i g...

>> why not? >> most of professors are way behind the development speed of the communities. >> why? your country is so advanced in so many other ways. why in this area? >> the network problem here in china, we have gfw, the great firewall, and it blocked a lot of important information websites. inside china. and a lot of people, they can't get the cutting-edge technology, which we don't teach in college at all. so the human resource problem and the manpower problem is more and more -- getting more and more serious here in china. >> because everyone's going to the silicon valley? >> they offer b...