we can secure our world. don t just use a password alone. mfa sends a call, a text or a code to your phone. learn more at cisa.gov/secureourworld that s how we can secure our world! on that note, i wish you a very good night. from all our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late. i will see you tomorrow. tonight on all in. as we deliberate, we reached a verdict pretty quickly. the president s son found guilty of violating federal gun laws. no one in the country is above the law. everyone must be accountable for their actions. what the verdict means and does not mean about the rule of law in america. everyone is saying where is hunter? two tiered system of just a we have. the campaign led by compact is vetting potential running mates. i don t know. certainly, like, you committed a crime. the alito scandal that will not end. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the month. jamie raskin on the push to get answers from the supreme court. can you tell us about how the supreme court and specifically the chief justice have addressed the scandals? all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i m chris hayes. in a political era marked by seemingly never ending string of historic firsts, there s another one today. a record decision the conservatives received with glee. hunter biden has been found guilty on all counts in his gun trial. federal trial in wilmington. hunter biden, the last living son of the sitting president was convicted today on three felony counts related to his lying on a federal firearms application in 2018 by not disclosing the struggles with drug addiction. he had the gun for 11 days. hunter biden now faces as much as 25 years in prison and his father, president biden, did not blast the case is a which one or target the prosecutors, judge, and jurors some of whom called into cable news shows to discuss the verdict with no major fears for their own safety in this high-profile case. president biden did not shake his fist at the justice system. he put up the statement. as i said last week, i am the president but i am also a debt. jill and i love our son and we are proud of the man he is today. so many families who ve had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone, the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. as i also said, will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process is hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. i find that genuinely touching. love of family, respect for the process. its income incredibly stark contrast to the ceaseless barrage of absolutely unhinged authoritarian histrionics we all witnessed last month. remember? not just from donald trump but the entire republican party. other people dressing up as donald trump who went to the courthouse so he will pick them to be the vice president and mob chanting for them to be hanged. all of them calling to tear down the entire judicial system are casting aspersions at new york jurors or near justice for the judge or the prosecutor. all because their nominee got caught falsifying business records and was convicted unanimously by a jury of his peers on 34 felony counts. this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt . a rigged trial, a disgrace. this is like the soviet style thing. show me the person and i ll show you the crime. it was a smear job. it was an attack job. it s what you see in a banana republic. the problem is democrats have crossed the line. it s a justice system the hunch republicans while protecting democrats. this was a hoax. a sham. do we want to become a country where we jail political opponents? republicans and protects democrats. what do you think the party affiliation of hunter biden is? and so, this hunter biden conviction is as clear a moment of contrast as possible between the two major coalitions, the major parties and political polls today. what did illustrates is one party under donald trump, and this is important, has placed itself outside the american constitution while the other still trying to defend and uphold of. that was closed in january 6 but at that time, particularly the aftermath, there was palpable horror among republicans. lots of them talking how horrified they were. re-signing from the administration and all that. there was a sense the party wanted to distance themselves from trump s lawlessness. that was then. today they are fully united as a party in opposition to that. attitude typified by possibly the most powerful conservative you ve never heard of russ vought, portions of the heritage foundation project 2025 on how to remake the executive branch in a trump presidency. this week, the washington post identified russ vought as a potential chief of staff and the trump administration even if he lays out his vision for a post-constitutional presidency to turn the government into a flatly authoritarian project or failing that, just a mafia state. reporting that he is help craft proposals from trump to deploy the military to quash civil unrest, seize control of the justice department, and assert the power of appropriations and that s just on trump s first day back. democrats are not just making statements of faith and the legal institutions, they have taken reelections to preserve those institutions and their independence. no better example of this is the prosecution of one hunter biden. remember how this started? back in 2018 under david weiss, the u.s. attorney the trump- appointed in delaware, the fbi probed hunter biden and there were subpoenas but no charges. remember, trump grew angry at that, quote, was justice department had not publicized the investigation into his opponent s son during the 2020 election. after trump lost that election, republicans insisted president biden would obstruct justice to keep his son free and they called for a special counsel to investigate hunter biden. when the new president comes in, it s his right to replace any u.s. attorney who wants in the usually do. been replaced donald trump s appointees at doj except for two. john durham who bill barr tasked with investigating the rusher probe, trump special. and david weiss who was investigating his own son. that is because the new president, at the pains of a possible criminal conviction of his surviving son in recovery wanted no appearance of impropriety or of fearon s. merrick garland went a step forward. and he appointed david weiss as special counsel to make sure his work on the hunter biden case was independent. that was a move that republicans opposed? the republicans in the house judiciary, david weiss can t be trusted. it s a new way to whitewash the biden family s corruption. after all of that and a plea deal that was worked out with hunter biden but ultimately rejected by the courts, he ended up charging the president s son for an weapons are rarely prosecuted that even trey gaudi, the far right ex- congressman and former prosecutor could scarcely believe. i did gun prosecutions for six years. i went after convicted felons. i went after people who were fugitives from justice. i went after lots of different people who were prohibited from possessing a firearm. i will bet you they were not 10 cases prosecuted nationwide of addicts or unlawful drug users who possess firearms relied on applications. i bet there were not a dozen. it makes you wonder of all the cases you could be pursuing in delaware, why are you pursuing this one? all of this facilitated by democrats in the white house and the department of justice and capitol hill, all to try to restore faith and equal justice under the law and the norms of the constitution. trump flagrantly violated the norms at every turn. stewing we could not interfere further. publicly calling for prosecutions. you may have forgotten this nugget that months into his presidency trump was calling federal prosecutors and cultivating relationships with them including the was attorney for the southern district beat barrera, obama holdover who was overseeing investigation into stock trades made by trump s health secretary tom price. he said those calls made him uncomfortable and he was fired as u.s. attorney less than a day after he finally refused to take a call from trump. people inside the administration would later tell propublica, trump s personal attorney bragged about getting bharara fired reportedly telling trump this guys going to get you. the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york joins me now. an interesting study in contrast over the last few weeks. indeed. what strikes you about the reaction today? when you think of the biden family and how joe biden in particular thinks of his job, and his family, upon a conviction before the conviction, the investigation and arrest and indictment of his son given what his family is been through, you would think every parental, a fatherly instinct would ve been to protect him. if you are a father, you love your children more than you love yourself. you need to protect them from harm and you try to protect them from bad consequences. the biden family has suffered bad things as a family and yet there s some things more important than that when you are commander-in-chief and the president of the country. one of those things is no one is above the law and the rule of law matters. this that you have been pointing out, joe biden had absolute authority, literal authority. no authority over alvin bragg and did not direct the prosecution of trump. it s his justice department and he had authority to direct people not to prosecute his son. he could ve fired special counsel and directed them not be appointed in the first place. he could ve pardon has some preemptively. he could still pardon him but he said he will not do that. all of that conduct given it is his son, it s kind of think how unbelievable that is. in 1 million years if the shoe were on the other foot and donald trump was facing the prospect of his son being prosecuted by me if i had been held over, a biden holdover or obama holdover prosecution, not in 1 million years with that have happened. some of the people on the right who support donald trump are trying to cast this as some clever ops program by which this actually proves it to hash i will say it s outlandish to announce don jr. getting in trouble with guns or drugs. stephen miller said it s a misdirection and easy effort doj to sell to appliance media that s too willing to be due. it s about protecting joe biden and only joe biden. no matter what happens, the corrupt rigged system is steeper than you realize. if every possible outcome, permutation is arguably a point in your favor, maybe your position is terrible. i used a different word than terrible. i don t even think he was required even by probity to keep david weiss on in delaware. honestly. when i say bend over backwards, it would ve been perfectly reasonable bend over backwards above and beyond. and it would not be reasonable to say wink wink, nudge nudge. if you say, do your thing. he didn t have to do with. other features important to point out and you mentioned some of them in the intro. the jury verdict came out and they didn t dox the jury or take the judge. he didn t say it s a travesty of justice or a witch-hunt. he said what i used to say when i was attorney and from time to time even though with the you win some and lose some. we respect the jury. opposite of what trump did. one of the most striking things is after the trump verdict and i remember judge kaplan in the federal civil trial with e. jean carroll told the jurors, you can talk to the press, i advise you not to. and they did not. in alvin bragg s case they did not talk to the press. they would expose himself to harassment a possibly threats and harassment. i m a reporter and i like it. what a contrast. it s a stark contrast. i think it goes to show and when joe biden and his supporters talk about the rule of law, they mean it. you can disagree with his policies. talk about the border and other things that are not in my daily work but on the question of whether or not the rule of law is to be enforced in fear or favor to be given to anyone including the son of a sitting president of the united states, the republicans are full of it on the trump side and biden is not. walk the walk. final question, independence and the department of justice. we have a post-nixon order. one of the things about nixon, a level of regulation, norms, and statures was the department of justice can t just be a tool in the hands of the executive to pursue vendetta. to prosecute and punish enemies. to protect friends. the trump vision is that. explicitly that. russ vought, they really think we are going to come in ski and it will be day one open investigation and that person and prosecute them. that which they accused everyone as of doing, they are saying, there is great irony, one of the cases pending against donald trump, the mar-a- lago case in florida, donald trump s team is made a number of motions to dismiss the indictment. one is vindictive prosecution. there is no evidence of that. no evidence that joe biden or anyone else directed that prosecution and indictment. by saying the things they re saying now that you are pointing out, donald trump ironically laying the foundation for a vindictive persecution motion to dismiss on the part of all the current people who donald trump will be going after because he s announcing his plans before election. all the statements in the plans, project 2025 and everything is will be chapter and verse in the briefs asking for the dismissal of those indictments. that s a great point. preet bharara, thank you. coming up congressman alexandria ocasio-cortez and jamie raskin on the scandals rocking the maga supreme court. donald trump s rude awakening from the criminal justice system. l justice system. her uncle s unhappy. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. donald trump has been convicted of 34 felonies and now, americans, the ones who don t know at least getting a crash course the way life changes when you become a felon. since his conviction, trump is expected to have his gun license revoked under federal law. convicted felons are prohibited from possessing a gun. that was part of the issue when the hunter trial. it s unclear what it means for guns he has in his possession a. he told the probation officer he has a gun in florida. he could lose his liquor licenses first three new jersey golf clubs. new jersey prohibits any person who is been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude from having a liquor license. have you ever been convicted of a crime is often on job applications. a subject of reform campaigns to ban the box as a way to help former convicts get jobs and reenter society. that question about criminal convictions is part of the vetting for vice presidential pick where it seems only one member of the ticket gets to be a felon. the vast for a number of things. a number of people have been asked to submit this and that. like taxes? i don t know everything. criminal background? have you convicted a crime. charles coleman and civil rights defense attorney. a senior political reporter at rolling stones who has covered trump world. trump hoped would save him from conviction. they join me. it s interesting to watch folks who don t know this to watch the various implications of being convicted of a felony and the different regulations and things you cannot do. in some states it s voting, liquor licenses, and the like. speaking as a person of color and a former prosecutor, i am unmoved by these newfound epiphanies that are occurring on the right with respect to the reality of life in america if you are a convicted felon. one thing i find to be particularly interesting is how the right is scrambling to rearrange the narrative of what it is to be a felon. you are talking about the party that has planted its flag on the notion of law and order in america now having to walk out and say it s politically advantageous for our candidate to have 34 convictions on his record. this is a narrative they are not going to be able to square but it s funny to watch them try. he had invited on stage in the box, two folks broad conspiracy of folks like moving heavy drugs and violent crime. very serious stuff and has them on the state. this is our thing now. you were talking whether someone is an associate of felons. that is donald trump s jam. the list is very long. shockingly long, especially for someone who held the highest office in the country. i think it is a psych job. they re trying to say it s good we are felons. it s amazing how the tough on crime falls by the wayside when it s the racist game show host. donald trump and his minions love to talk to in and day out but two tiered system of justice. he is correct that one does exist in the country but he is at this tier and everybody is below. there s so many things he has been doing lately that no other defendant in a criminal trial could get away with. including the stuff he said about the judge. behind the scenes and in the open, and his maga brain trust prepared to exploit parts of the u.s. criminal code, as we have reported, to go after the alvin bragg sand letitia james and jack smith if he returns to power. some of this is cooked up behind the scenes in policy papers but so much is done in the open. you also have got them get alvin bragg before a committee. he is going to testify at the gop led judiciary committee. one question i have about this is, does any of this matter in the process that trump is going through? no, it does not. ramose, the probation officer? it s all rigged? does that matter from what sentencing? his public rhetoric absolutely i thought you were referring to alvin bragg. with respect to the things that donald trump is parroting and continues to parrot in the public dialogue around his case, that matters. one of the things a probation officer will take into account is what degree of understanding and remorse do you have? i screwed up. i am sorry. when you are in every opportunity in front of a microphone saying what a political prosecution this was. you have been reported on this that house republican leaders are gauging support for legislation that would like current and former president move a state case to federal court. have you heard any of that? oh, yeah. we reported at the end of last month that trump had been calling around to different conservative allies including republican lawmakers on capitol hill to lobby them when i m back in office, wouldn t it be great if you passed legislation ready for me to send that can have former and current president move their cases to federal court? again, i think they re getting high on their supply. i feel like that is a bad bill to vote for. for a front-line republican member. if you are a maga lawmaker, there is a cute appeal to it. it s not only moderate republicans saying maybe we should not do this. i have spoken to extremely maga attorneys close to donald trump with told me, maybe we shouldn t go down this run. we want to use state ag s and district attorneys to go after joe biden or hillary clinton. the principle applying equal he would hang them up. there is back and forth about the gun situation. i m sure you have encountered this. folks have guns. what does the law say about whether he can keep the gun in florida, new york crime. he will probably need to turn the gun in in florida. he will have a grace period or that s allowed. technically, he might be in violation of the law upon the notice of conviction, he will probably allowed some leeway but it would not surprise me if he has to turn it in. hunter biden conviction today was about he lied on a form because you cannot in terms of taking drugs and own a gun. violation of federal law and lied on the forms and of the ex- president holding a gun. having been convicted of a felony. it s a remarkable set of circumstances. thank you both. samuel alito s wife has even more thoughts about flags. aoc and jamie raskin on the supreme court s legitimacy crisis. itimacy crisis. hi, i m janice and i lost 172 pounds on golo. a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am on the inside. once i saw golo was working i felt this rush. golo really works. donald trump wins in november his plans including as the washington post reports a plot to convert federal civil service into an authoritarian tool to report friends and punish enemies. the scope of his plan his desire to weaponize the government against perceived foes. one of the most striking example was a trump department of justice lengthy battle to block the merger between at&t and time warner on antitrust grant. there was always a suspicion which is been all but confirmed that trump was trying to block the merger because he did not like time warner s news network cnn. antitrust and trump s hands was another tool of government authority that could be used to corrupt ends. in the latest episode of my podcast series why is this happening with pot 2024 those steaks? i talked with timothy who is the architect of president biden s antitrust policy. we talked about the respective records of donald trump and joe biden as president when it comes to antitrust action. there were indications, genuine bits of evidence, and a widespread perception amongst i think fortune 500 corporate elite that this was essentially, if you are with trump, if you were his friend you could get the merger approved and it you were his enemy you would have a problem. this became this powerful almost unilateral lover for trump to wield against people he did not like and the most notorious case being, and i think it was somewhat surprising, when the doj announced it would block a proposed at&t time warner merger. there is some evidence to suggest that at least partly it was born of the animus trump hat of cnn s coverage of him. that is pretty bad. i think it s a thing where trump didn t think there was a problem with it. no. i think he thought it was within his rights to order the breakup of a company he did not like. his white house counsel sort of restrained were slightly dead and that. there is so much circumstantial evidence that the white house and the presidency were involved in antitrust decisions that it s hard to deny it. you can find the full conversation i had with him who is a fascinating guy and an amazing record in this area by going to why is this happening? the stakes by scanning the qr code on your screen. you can listen to it wherever you get your podcast. ur podcas flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com. i must admit i was skeptical when supreme court justice samuel alito blamed his wife for that upside down american flag flying at their home after january 6. a symbol adopted by trump supporters who believed the 2020 election was stolen. it seemed like a convenient explanation but it looks like justice alito was telling the truth when he said infamously, quote, my wife is fond of flying flags. i am not. listen to her in a recent conversation secretly recorded and released by activist lauren windsor. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. and he s like, please don t put up a flag. i said i won t do it because i am deferring to you. but when you re free of this nonsense, putting it up and i m going to send a message every day, maybe every week. i made a flag in my head. this is how we satisfy myself. i made a flag. it s white and yellow and orange flames around it and in the middle is this word. in italian that means shame. shame. the opposite of pride? they have not responded to an nbc news request for comment but none of what she said changes the facts that justice alito allowed the flag to fly over so molly sits in the highest court on the land hearing cases related to the insurrection in january 6 and he sits on the court along with his buddy clarence thomas his wife was interviewed by the january 6 committee better tax with trump s chief of staff. both justice thomas and alito refused to root recuse himself despite the obvious appearance. we are faced with an urgent question. what can be done about us out of control court? democrats in the house oversight committee held a roundtable on the ethical crisis in the supreme court. one of the expert legal witnesses was my wife. leading the panel was jamie raskin, ranking member the oversight committee and new york congresswomen alexandria ocasio-cortez, the vice ranking member and they post join me now. good to have you on. thank you for having us. i will start with you about what the agenda was today to convene this. you cannot call hearings herself as a ranking member and not the chair. what were you trying to do today? the oversight democrats wanted to respond to the national clamor over this crisis of legitimacy at the supreme court. we analyzed the ethics crisis and we analyze the political crisis around confirmations that got us into this and the blockade of confirmations of people like merrick garland who was nominated by president obama that we began to talk about what things could be done both in the specific case of justices alito and thomas and about the ethical collapse at the supreme court. the highest court in the land with the lowest ethical standards. the only governmental officials in the land who are not governed by a binding ethics code. there is no process by which we can hold them accountable. it violates the essential principle that james madison identified as the heart of our justice system which is no man can be a judge in his own cause. we began to explore different avenues of holding them accountable. congresswoman, you said something toward the end saying it cannot be the case, a constitutional matter as an almost intuitive common sense matter that they are not subject to any checks. we have three coequal branches. checks and balances between them three branches in the position alito said in an interview that congress has no ability to regulate us whatsoever. what should congress be doing? what are you brainstorming? what s the conversation about what those checks can be? of course, justice alito s position is laughable. this idea that he can be and the court should be accountable to nobody and the only person that should be accountable is are themselves. this scouts promise sort of set up for how we should be having ethics standards for the highest and most consequential court in the land. it s completely unacceptable and not only unacceptable, but to have one of our coequal branches be completely unaccountable to the others is paving the path to authoritarianism, tyranny, the abuse of power in the united states. it s structurally, completely unsustainable. it s not a question of if congress has jurisdiction and power over the supreme court. it is what power are we going to exercise in order to reign in a fundamentally unaccountable and rogue court? one of the beautiful things about the roundtable today is we were able to call in one of our senate colleagues, senator white house, who has been pursuing extensive investigations into the dark money networks that has been exerting influence over the court and we raised and discussed a varying degrees of measures from term limits to actual binding ethics standard and congressman raskin i myself will be introducing a forthcoming legislation to even have the supreme court be subject to the same $50 gift rule that he and i are subject to is everyone else is, members of congress. that is a great point. i was talking to my wife kate shaw who gave testimony today before your hearing. she pointed out to me that if i m not mistaken, things like, you can get a book deal as a supreme court justice but you could not be a partner of wilmer hail. that s something congress passed a statute to say what you could or could not do. you would be nuts to be a supreme court justice and have a side gig as a lawyer. presumably, you can change data congress can pass statutes that says this is not allowed. congress has a ban on outside employment and as aoc was saying, we have a $50 gift ban. none of us goes near doing that. you don t do $500,000 vacations? that s a comical thing. members of congress don t even understand that. what circumstances would a supreme court justice accept millions of dollars in foreign travel prepaid tuition for very family members or recreational vehicle, motor stagecoach. it s outlandish to contemplate. that s a general level of funds for people over here. the normal business as usual at the supreme court that they are collecting millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars from the so-called friends. we need to clean that up. we said, we will start was something simple that the country can understand immediately. we want a $50 gift ban for u.s. supreme court justices. they make $300,000 a year. pay for your own lunch and you re on vacation. that does seem quite clear congresswoman and has the advantage, there s issues to deal with. in some ways, the only way to legislate for congress to act as outlaying broad principles that are broadly applicable. absolutely. as all of us as public servants of federal public servants whether it s both chambers of congress, the white house, many of us are subject to the same if not extremely similar and uniform code of ethics. the fact that the supreme court which is already unelected, at least for those of us who run for office, we have to re-run for office every two years in the house. for an unelected body of nine people appointed for life do not have any sort of binding, strict ethics code to which they cannot only be held accountable but which can be enforced, is actually ludicrous. it s almost unbelievable that we are sitting here in the year 20 24/200 years after the establishment of this country, and we have not addressed this issue. it is something that s long past doing and it s common sense. one thing we addressed is how the private corruption of the justices mirrors the public correction corruption of. it has been dismantling civil rights law, civil liberties, women s right to choose an abortion, labor law, consumer law, you name it. as they grow more removed from the experiences of the way the rest of us live, the more they are willing to demolish the protections the rest of us need to. there s a bunch of things to happened outside of the purview of this question, the court has to deal with equal justice under law and i wonder if you would stick around to talk about that. love to. love to. are you still struggling with your bra? it s time for you to try knix. makers of the world s comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. and sizes up to a g-cup, [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. still with me congressman jamie raskin and congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, the ranking and vice ranking members of the house oversight committee. today, the president s son was convicted on counts he was charged with. i went to read the president s statement and get your reaction. he said i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will change that. what did you think of that? i mean, it was very residential and he showed in his statement love for his son and love for his country including the rule of law. the different reactions between republican colleagues and democratic colleagues with the trump verdict in the hunter biden verdict, it s astounding. nobody on our side said the fix was in. nobody said it was a travesty. nobody said that justice system needs to be turned upside down. everybody accepted it. hunter biden like donald trump had the right of counsel which he exercised. he had the presumption of innocence and had the right to take the stand but chose not to do. trump chose not to do. they had unanimous jury verdicts finding they were guilty on all counts. i am saying about that what i said about trump s burdick which is they have a right to appeal and they can do that under due process. thank gut we ve got that in america and we will stand by the rule of law and the system of justice for the same reason we are fighting for a supreme court that restores its integrity and reputation. we need to have that kind of confidence not just at the trial level, federal court or state court, we need it all the way up. those supreme court justices are a runaway body at this point. speaking of state court in new york, congresswoman you represent part of new york. there was insults and vitriol that has been directed at alvin bragg from donald trump down in the people s carrying water for him. that has escalated. he is being called for the house republicans before i think the judiciary committee and be grilled by house republicans have rallied behind trump since his conviction. gop lawmakers are perpetuated the false narrative that president biden ordered his prosecution. what do you think about the fact that they are escalating to the point where they will haul alvin bragg before congress? what we are seeing here unfold is an out right abuse of power in the politicization, the seats of power these republicans hold to intimidate the courts and exact political revenge. we have to look at this from a basic jurisdictional point of view. alvin bragg is not even dad it s not even a federal case. we are looking at a state court. we are looking at municipal and state courts. we have republicans who are trying to haul them in, on what grounds exactly? it s not federal court. they do not have jurisdiction over it. it is truly an attempt at public targeting. we see they do this. it s in the model of donald trump and the model of invoking and trying to incite as much anger and intimidation in order for them to get the outcomes they want. and they are eager to be servile sycophants of donald trump that their political judgment is up. that s not where the public is and they understand what the hunter biden verdict in the donald trump verdict the rule of law is working and they are intervening as you say in a state case in order to placate donald trump. precisely. what we are also seeing is the stark contrast between joe biden and donald trump. president biden we have yes a loving father who was there to be supportive of his son but also a president who respects the rule of law and willing to accept the outcomes of a case even if the outcome is not in favor with his family or his personal outcomes. you have donald trump who takes and weaponize is the seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign of political intimidation in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. that at the core is part of the stakes of our democracy that are before us today. once rule of law goes out the window, it s not something that is easy to get back. it s very much a part of the decision we have to make in the next few months. thank you for all your time tonight. that s all in on this tuesday night . night . tuesday night. good evening, alex. we have some new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren windsor has given us and
that is tonight s last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. tonight, hunter biden guilty in his federal gun case. what s next for the president s only living son as he awaits sentence thing and what it could mean for the race. then my exclusive interview with john bolton. why he thinks we are not taking the former president s threats seriously enough. plus, pride month under attack. why progress is being lost as the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle and we are now 147 days away from the election and today the president son, hunter biden, was convicted on all counts in his federal gun trial. the jury deliberated the three counts for just three hours. president biden says he accepts the outcome of the case and will always be there for his son. here is my colleague ryan nobles with more. reporter: tonight president biden arriving in delaware, hugging his son on the tarmac after hunter biden became the first child of a sitting president found guilty in a criminal trial. no one in this country is above the law. reporter: it took three hours of deliberations for 12 jurors to unanimously determine hunter biden guilty of three felony counts. for lying about his drug use on a federal background check to buy a gun. special counsel david weiss, who oversaw the prosecution, saying this is not a case about hunter s struggles with crack, but his decision to break the law. s choice to lie on a government form when he bought a gun and then to possess that gun. it was these choices and the combination of guns and drugs that made his conduct dangerous. reporter: inside the courtroom, the president s 54- year-old son did not react as the verdict was read. he left the courthouse holding the hand of the first lady, later releasing a statement saying i am more grateful today for the love and support i experienced this last week from melissa, my family, my friends, and my community then i am disappointed about the outcome. the verdict comes after four days of testimony from people who are or were once close to hunter biden. many testifying about his drug use around the time he filled out the background check saying he was not a drug user. his ex-girlfriend testified she witnessed hunter smoking crack every 20 minutes or so. the prosecution also using clips from hunter s own book. i have no plans beyond the moment. reporter: the defense argued hunter biden did not knowingly lie on the form. tonight we spoke to juror number 10, who asked that we conceal his identity. separating the politics from the case a absolutely. for us it was not politically motivated. politics never played into anything that we said in the jury room. reporter: president biden, who said he would not pardon his son, writing, jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. with that let s get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel this evening. mike memoli is here. he has covered president biden and his family for more than a decade. susan glasser joins us, staff writer for the new yorker and harry litman, former assistant attorney general. mike, you know this president and his family better than any other reporter out there. how are they all reacting to this? biden has a lot of family expressions and one i have heard him invoke so often is that family is everything. it is the beginning, it is the middle, and it is the end. in the more than decade of covered president biden i have seen them come together to celebrate their greatest triumphs. the election, the inauguration most recently. i have also seen them have to endure some of the most difficult and tragic moments as a family. this is one that yet again has brought the family together. to really take stock of a very difficult moment. really the past week and a half has been so difficult to have to relive through this trial the most difficult moments of their family, starting with the death of beau biden and what it did to hunter biden, leading to the addiction to drugs. as i have been talking to people close to the family tonight i have been struck by a tone of defiance about what comes next. there has been concern about what this might mean politically, but also personally for president biden. he is 21 weeks away from his last election. 16 days away from a consequential debate against donald trump, but the tone i am hearing from people close to the president is that they are so proud of their public service as a family and nothing is going to stop them from achieving the goal that is set out in front of them. they know they have a difficult task ahead. the politics, the legal situation does not get easier from here but they are determined to face this together as a family. harry, you wrote in the l.a. times that the jury decision was right, but the prosecution was wrong. i don t think i know what that means. let me try. department of justice guidelines, stephanie, have ways of handling cases and cases like this in which someone lies on a form but does not do any other crime with a gun or part of a gang or whatever are universally dismissed or not treated with the severity that david weiss treated this one. that is how david weiss first proposed to treat this one about a year ago when the gun charges were going to be the subject of a diversion agreement if hunter biden kept clean for two years. it would go away. so the screaming question, not the jury verdict but the question to charge presents and i don t know what the answer is. what happened to change his view of what was the proper punishment and treatment of hunter biden to take it outside how gop practice would normally treat it. because he is a special counsel no one in the doj supervisory structure which normally would say we don t do that to these cases, here is how we handle these cases. no one was there to say that and i think it is certain for whatever reason that hunter was treated more severely than another defendant with the same facts. you have written that you don t think a game changer could change voters minds about this election so i assume you think this verdict won t have much of an impact. we are getting to the point that you are anticipating me too well. look, if donald trump s conviction and becoming the first convicted felon in american history who was a former president, if that was not a radical change in the election, i don t see the conviction of a private citizen, even one who was the son of a current president to be a game changer in this race. it was that close. there was a minor, incremental shift at best toward biden. it is not entirely clear how this conviction of biden s son will play politically. certainly republicans were immediately questioning this, saying this is really just a distraction and all sorts of instantaneous conspiracy theories. default setting from some of trumps public supporters and defenders. you know, hunter biden is not running for president and that s the bottom line. there is no evidence that years of investigations of him, of dragging his name around, has really affected biden s political standing and i don t anticipate this would, either. hunter biden is not running for president. we should remind our audience he has no role in our government, past, present, and no plans for the future. harry, what could he be looking at as far as sentence goes? the standard guidelines would dictate a sentence between 15 to 21 months, based on the conduct and lack of criminal history. those are just recommendations and my best guess, consistent with what i was saying about how people who don t do anything else other than lie on the form are treated is that he will receive a fair bit less than that from the judge. remember however that there are still the tax charges he has to face and david weiss made it clear that the investigation is ongoing and he may be targeting some of hunter biden s conduct in 2014 or so in china, in business dealings. for this charge i expect him to get a sentence that is a matter of months, not the 15 to 21 that the guidelines would otherwise dictate. even if it is just a few months, hunter biden, unlike most people in his situation has secret service protection. so how does that work? your guess is as good as mine, though we have been thinking about it and we know the secret service prepared a plan when it came up with donald trump. trump would have his own wing and people would be there. there would be a lot of cooperation with local authorities. here it is easier because it is federal authorities, bureau of prisons and secret service. that will be worked out one way or another. i think that is sort of the least of the practical issues that this conviction poses today. michael, you laid it out for us, how close the biden family has. how to finance the president is when it comes to protecting his family, how he talks about the family. around this time last year i interviewed the president. much to his teams chagrin, anger, fury, i asked about hunter and he said my son is an innocent man, my son is a good man. the president is now headed deeper into this campaign into the debate stage. how is he going to handle the questions he is asked, the narrative around hunter now that we have this guilty verdict and a president who does respect the rule of law and decisions made by a jury? just think about the gauntlet that is ahead. i mentioned 16 days from now is the first debate. preparation is critical. the president tomorrow is leaving for an important foreign trip. meeting with other key leaders as well as pope francis. you know how close this president is with that hope. it will be an interesting meeting, but then he comes back and has a little over a week to prepare for that debate. we have never in modern history scenery match between combatants like trump and biden and we know the strategy on the part of the former president is very likely to try to get under president biden skin and use this against him. the biden team looks at 2020 when, yes, hunter biden was a frequent political cudgel that trump tried to use against him and the president s advisers say it did not work then and it actually backfired on donald trump. they are presenting this as do this at your own peril to donald trump, but i think it is a concern to people close to president biden that as important as the debate is and as important as preparation is, will he be able to focus on the task at hand? the answer from those i ve spoken to today is that is not going to be an issue. susan, i m sure you remember this question. former president trump and his friends at fox news said it over and over and over. where is hunter? they said it for days, weeks, months. it seemed like years. yet after today s verdict the trump campaign was basically silent, saying it is just a distraction. what in the world is going on here, susan? well, first of all i guess now that donald trump himself where s the label of convicted felon and has been at the spearhead of the most kind of concerted assault that we have ever seen, i think, by one political party in this country against the very legitimacy of the legal system. it is not exactly a comparison that is favorable where you have democrats on down today saying listen, we respect the rule of law. biden isn t going to issue a pardon for his own son. as painful as this is we think that the jury system works and things like that. the contrast with trump is obviously one that is very unfavorable and i am struck by how quickly trumps allies immediately reverted to conspiracy theories and make- believe. i can t stress that enough. they are still in burnet down mode when it comes to our legal system and that includes, you know, trying to imply that this case is a distraction from the real secret being covered up, the real case that should be brought against hunter biden. whatever the conspiracy theory is, it is part of a purposeful plan to rip down the authority and the legitimacy of the legal system, because of donald trump. because of one man. republicans like to say the current president weaponize is the justice department, but i want to share with democrat jim mcgovern had to say about that very thing. watch this. apparently when a republican is convicted it is weaponization, but when a democrat is convicted, the president s son no less, that is justice. give me a break. hunter biden was found guilty by a jury of his peers, just like donald trump. the divide is stunning and it is a great reminder that one political party remains committed to the rule of law and the other doesn t. jim mcgovern bringing a rational thought to a political party. crazy to do these days. michael, there are a lot of apolitical people. it seems like what you laid out with the a clear contrast for voters. is it? it is interesting because what we didn t hear from the president, from those around him tonight, was criticism of a trump appointed judge that presided over this trial or the prosecution from the trump appointed special counsel. there was none of that in the statement before the trial began and today when the try was over, he reiterated his respect for the rule of law and freedom and democracy have been an important part of the president s campaign. that is an example he is showing not just through those words, but the words we saw in another interview last week. the president has the power after this difficult moment, this difficult verdict, to free his son of any potential jail time. he can issue a pardon as soon as the sentence comes down and he has said he will not do that. if ever there was an opportunity for a president to put their finger on the scale of the justice system and given how close he and his family are, it would seem to be in this moment and he said he is not going to do that. thank you all for starting us off on this very serious news evening. when we return this man once worked in the trump administration and a cabinet level position. now one of his biggest critics. john bolton talks the verdicts in both trump and hunter biden s trials. later the biden campaign has an aggressive strategy to brand trump as a felon. how the president s sons verdict could complicate that. the 11th hour, just getting underway on a tuesday night. da. 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( ) ( ) this one will never see the light of day. all right. i bought the team! kevin.? i put it on my chase freedom unlimited card. and i m gonna cashback on a few other things too! starting with the sound system. that s caaaaaaaaash. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? revenge does take time, i will say that. sometimes revenge can be justified. sometimes it can. look, when this election is over, based on what they ve done, i would have every right to go after them and it is easy, because it is joe biden. you see all of the criminality. i know a lot of republicans want retribution. we are going to see what happens. the former president has been vague on details, but there is no doubt that revenge has been top of mind for donald trump. nbc news noting, quote, trump has done at least five interviews since his guilty verdict. in all five he has talked about possible retribution. his former national security advisor john bolton has been warning about this for years. in february, 2023 he wrote trump really cares only about retribution for himself and it will consume much of his second term. john bolton joins us now. ambassador, thank you for being here. i wanted to talk to you because donald trump is clearly not shy about saying he would get revenge on his perceived enemies in a second term. are we taking his threats seriously enough? i don t think enough people are. when you hear trump saying things like people are saying that retribution can be justified, what he really means is i am saying that retribution can be justified. i think he has a long list of adversaries he wants to go after, but i think the justice department under the trump administration will be in continuing chaos as he tells his political appointee is to go after people whether there are grounds to do it or not and what those lawyers do will tell you a lot about their legal integrity. i think it will put the judiciary under real pressure. you might be on the perceived enemy list. are you concerned at all for your safety? i m concerned about a lot of people that i think he made clear he wants to go after. he tried to suppress my book. he tried to get a criminal investigation started. both of those have been settled and taken out of the picture because they were utterly without merit, but i don t think those technicalities stand in trumps way. he said for example he wants to prosecute the former chairman of the joint chief of staff s for daring to have a conversation with his chinese counterpart in the run-up to january 6, to assure the chinese that they need not worry. trump says that his treason and he reminded people that the death penalty used to apply. i think he is very serious. he may joke about it a little bit, but this will be a retribution presidency and i think the justice department will be where the rubber meets the road. you called the new york verdict a fire bell in the night and you urged your party to nominate somebody else at the convention. do you think that is something that could realistically happen? is there a group behind the scenes potentially working on this? i don t think it is realistic, but i think people ought to have a gut check one more time. for most americans voting for a convicted felon, i think, is going to be a real obstacle. you can say all you want that this was the result of political discrimination against trump. he will be able to raise the selective prosecution argument on appeal. when the case was put in front of 12 regular americans, new yorkers like donald trump used to be, they found him guilty. i think the facts the prosecution presented were clear and that is a problem the party will have and could affect senate candidates, house candidates, gubernatorial candidates. i think if he is elected, electing the first convicted felon as president of the united states will cause real damage to the united states and how we are perceived abroad. given the guilty verdict today for president biden son, hunter biden, what do you say to those republicans who say joe biden weaponized the department of justice and made it his political tool? right and basically shot his son in the process. it is a conspiracy theory. i speak as an alumnus of the department of justice. you could not do in that department what trumps supporters say has been done and not have it leaked to every major media outlet in the country. it is possible to be the victim of selective prosecution and unfairly so and also be guilty. i think certainly that is probably true in trump s case. in hunter biden s case they are not done with him yet. there will be an income tax case and the u.s. attorney, special counsel investigation into hunter continues. so i would like to see what the impact of this case is on the election. it will have an election impact, even though it is not joe biden. it is his son. and see what people think when trump says poor donald trump, the whole world is against him. apparently against hunter biden, too. do you think donald trump is a threat to democracy? we keep hearing that phrase. i want to know if you believe it and if so, practically, tangibly what does it look like? i don t think it is a threat to democracy or our system. i think it will cause enormous damage and a term of confusion and turmoil. but the idea that donald trump is going to overthrow the united states constitution, overthrow the republic as an existential threat to democracy gives him too much credit. i think it is important to state the threat accurately. not to overstate it, not to understate it, but to understand what the nature of the threat is so people who oppose it can combat it more effectively. overdoing it i think gives trump a break and that s a mistake. you said that donald trump doesn t have the brains for dictatorship. even though he said that he would be a dictator on day one. does that make him any less dangerous if he is not that smart but still wants to be a dictator? i think it goes to the point that while donald trump has an infinite span of attention when it comes to the greater glory of donald trump, his attention span on most other issues is about he will to a fruit fly. so that his opponents and even some of his supporters who try and move him away from the most dangerous things that he does will have plenty of room to try to step in. i m not trying to minimize what i see donald trump doing. i think what he was doing at the end of his first term is where it will pick up the day he is inaugurated and it is serious. when you say the republic itself will fall like the roman republic well, really? people think donald trump is equal to julius caesar? give me a break. he may not be, but this time around he won t have the safety guards of you, h.r. mcmaster, the list goes on. are you concerned about the people that are in his current orbit and what they are capable of doing and how they can influence him? yes, i think any administration in a second term does not attract the quality of people it does in the first for the very practical reason that the runway in the second term is shorter. trump will be a lame duck the minute he is sworn in and he has a lot of people around him. basically the people who stayed in the government after january 6 who were second and third rate at best. i think the bigger danger is that trump will insist on staffing a second term on personal loyalty to him above all. he is coming up with his decision for his vice presidential nominee and i think the two questions are, number one, do you think the 2020 election was stolen? and number two, if i told you in a similar situation to do what i told mike pence to do, would you do it? unless the answer to both questions is yes, then that person will not be considered for vice president. i think you will see something similar in all of the key positions. that is a very dangerous circumstance and to the extent the senate republicans included take the confirmation process seriously. if they see people who are more loyal to donald trump than they are to the constitution, that alone is grounds against them. is there a certain person that you see as highly dangerous who you are worried about? i would not want to give any of them academy awards. i think there are bright people including people in the house and senate who have joined this cult of personality and the smarter they are, the more dangerous they are. you are giving us some very serious warnings and things to take seriously, but something i m going to say is not that serious. a write in vote. this election is going to be joe biden or donald trump. in 2020 you wrote in dick cheney. you said you would do it again. are you really giving a clear and honest warning if you are willing to do another right in that won t help anything? look, i bought that argument in 2016 when hillary clinton ran against trump and i voted for trump in 2016. hillary and bill were a year ahead of me in law school and i like to say i ve been burdened with them a lot longer than the rest of the country. after working for trump i could not vote for him, but i did not vote for joe biden in 2020 and won t this year because i don t think he is fit to be president either, for different reasons. when you have two people who don t cross the bar of acceptability, i think it is legitimate to cast a protest vote. a lot of republicans told me a year ago that they would not vote for trump. that they will look at biden and choose what they considered to be the lesser of two evils and i hear other republicans and some democrats say the opposite. it is an unhappy time for america when these are the two people we nominated and it will be a bad four years for america, whichever of them wins. then are these concerns that you have that serious? writing somebody and who won t when is not serious. it s a protest vote. if i didn t vote for anybody this time it would be a protest vote as well. i m not going to vote for someone i think is not qualified, not fit for the office. i m not going to vote for people whose principles i don t agree with. ambassador, think you for joining me today. pleasure to meet you. glad to do it. when we return, how hunter biden s guilty verdict could impact his father s reelection campaign, especially with the first debate two weeks away. when the 11th hour continues. ffects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga you know what s brilliant? 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they can t, stephanie and i think we are already seeing previews of how they will contort themselves and make the reach that, oh no, this hunter biden verdict is unique in and of itself. completely different from what is happening to trump and that is not the reality. i think republicans will still try to say that even though it has been demonstrated that they have nothing to gain here. they tried and failed repeatedly to use hunter biden as a political football and the responses today show that they fully understand that it is nothing for them to win here. i think we were describing trump statement as a distraction. so i don t expect them to stop at that, right? they will keep with the trump lies, but when we look at this broadly we have to keep in mind that that is not going to have an impact in the selection. throughout the afternoon we ve heard it repeated that hunter biden is not running for election, donald trump is. we ve also heard the contrast from president biden who fully says he accepts the jury decision. he respects the justice system, compared to trump saying it is rigged and i think that is a contrast that will be replayed again and again and that will be something that captures voters attention more than the verdict specifically on hunter biden. hunter biden is a one off. menendez s legal bills would disagree. the president has started to use the term, convicted felon, calling trump that over and over. now that his son is in that camp, does it make it harder for him to do that? no, because he is not talking about his son. he s talking about the guy running against him to be the next president of the united states. hunter is not running for anything. hunter is taking care of business and will have another casey will have to deal with, just as donald trump is taking care of his business and will have three or four other cases to deal with. from the president s perspective it is smart politics to call the thing what it is. why would you run away from that? honestly he is a convicted felon. we watched our friends on this network countdown each count, one through 34. i think for the biden team it is an opportunity for them to lean into the politics and this is a political campaign. what candidate in the country, in the world for that matter, would not use this kind of weakness that is self-imposed by his opponent? remember this is all because of what donald trump did. joe biden was not in that hotel room with stormy daniels. donald trump was. the reality of it is, that is the reality. that s the truth. those are the facts and why not talk about it when the moment presents itself? judging when and exactly how each time may be a matter of some decision, but lean into it and call the thing what it is. i want to talk about somebody else that talks about politics today in the presidential race. a republican we don t hear from often, paul ryan, he was on fox news and here is what he said. he said he is a populist and authoritarian narcissist. it is a job that rick myers the kind of character he just does not have. that s pretty strong. that s the way i feel. i agree with that. i don t support biden, either. i think his policies are terrible. a lot of republicans make this argument. we heard john bolton saying basically the same thing on the show. michael, what is your response to that? my response is okay. to a certain extent, to each his own, but at a certain point it has to become about the country. going back to your discussion with john bolton, the reality is this is a big deal. you have an individual who is running for president who says he wants to be a dictator. i don t know. that is not what we do or have done. that is not what we are inclined towards. yet we may have had folks in america who danced with this idea back in the 30s. and in the 1950s with john birch society, but leaders in this country and ultimately the american people said that is not who we are. i am not forsaking the future of my kids and my grandkids to some fool who wants to be a dictator, because i know what history has taught me about dictatorships and that is not who we are. so at a certain point the paul ryan s and john bolton s may sit and go, i can t do that. but what i am asking my fellow republicans to do and center- right voters to do is think about the country for once. think about the bigger issue. think about your kids and the importance of this. there are a lot of things about the biden administration policies i could disagree with all day long, but they are not a threat to my freedom. they are not a threat to my family and my future. i get up every morning and have that fight with the administration. i can t have that fight with thugs from a former dictator knocking on my door. i m at a disadvantage there as an american citizen. so there are some important points to be made about this election. i happen to think that is one of them. i hope paul ryan and others will come around and at the end of the day what they do in the privacy of the voting booth is their business, despite what they may say publicly. i m guessing right now mitch mcconnell is tucked into his bed, nodding and agreeing with everything michael is saying. in public he is going to be welcoming donald trump later this week along with fellow senate republicans. how do you think this will go? these two men have not met in person since 2020. they may loathe each other, but they both love power. they both love authority and that is one reason they will continue to do the public display. i want to go back to something michael said that connected the dots in the way that john bolton couldn t. understanding that threat is important because what bolton could not commit to is that trump is a threat to our democracy. it was jarring to me to hear that interview in a post january 6 reality, in an effort to undermine the 2020 election results reality, where trump still refuses to accept those results and his supporters refused to proactively accept the 2024 results and to claim he is not a threat to democracy. it shows a disconnect that again, it aligns with some of the other republican talking points that are completely not based in reality and outlandish. connecting the dots for the american public is critical and i appreciate that the biden campaign has started their outreach campaign to the never trump republicans and crafting a national narrative that will appeal across partisan lines. because understanding the threats. understanding the components of project 2025 is going to be mobilizing factors in the selection. juanita, michael, i appreciate the two of you being here. great to see you both. when we return, pride under attack. we talk about the growing hostility ahead of pride month with the head of glaad when the 11th hour continues. inu i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ingrezza ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. only number-one prescribed ingrezza has simple dosing for td: always one pill, once daily. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington s disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don t take ingrezza if you re allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. take control by asking your doctor about ingrezza. ingrezza chewy, a citi client, uses citi s financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need. right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. the chances of a plane crash 1 in 11 million. you re not going to finish those salted nuts, right? 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here to discuss, sarah kate ellis, president and ceo of glaad. what are we seeing here? i think it has been building. what we have seen the past couple of years is this intensity against our community from politician, from right wing politicians. there have been over 500lgbt bills proposed. only 37 have passed at the state level across the country. the damage, though, is done as soon as those bills are proposed. what the politicians do are filling people with rhetoric, misinformation, and lies about our community. and it is fueling hate. just in the past month, we have seen over 30 attacks on our community. this past weekend, we saw three bomb threats. it is a direct line coming from the anti-lgbtq activists and mostly politicians. we also have companies now. now officially saying no to pride, but quietly pulling back support. why is this happening? i m not seeing that as much. i am seeing that headline. i work with over 300 fortune 500 countries and they are actually not pulling back. i think as a result from last year s pride and the bruhaha over bud light and target. what they are doing is integrating pride more into their every day. taking a 365 day approach versus putting all of their eggs in one basket. i am seeing an increase in commitment. i will tell you why that is. 30% of the next generation are lgbtq. 80% of the next generation identify as allies to the community. if you are a consumer business in america, you need to step up your ally ship. they realize that what they are trying to do is do it in really thoughtful ways. how much does misinformation fuel all of this? i have seen why does pride get a month. while others get a day. we have month that s support women, african americans, aapi. disability rights. where does the misinformation come from that almost makes lgbtq a target of things that are not even based in truth? we have a long history of our community being politicized. it has been going on for decades. where it is being fueled now though is through social media. this is a half of trolls that know how to exploit the social media platforms that spread these lies and misinformation. in fact, at glaad, we do an annual report on social media platforms for the safety of our community. and all of them failed. all the major ones failed. a piece of that we are unsafe is that they spread these lies and misinformation. and then it makes it to mainstream media. and it is absolute nonsense. that is why it is our job to tell the truth every night. it is always a pleasure to see you. thank you for joining us. happy pride month. be right back after a quick break. ack after a quick break. at what cost? 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which is straight after this programme. hello. welcome to the media show. well, on this week s programme, we ve talked about a couple of subjects which are pretty familiar to us on the media show, but they re no less pressing because of that. one is howjournalists should cover donald trump and of course, he s trying to become president of america again and the other is about the business models of news, because they are under ever more pressure. and when it comes to the business model, we are also looking at al and journalism, because several news organisations have done recent deals with the big tech firms. so that is all coming up. on this week s programme, we re going to hearfrom andrew neil, who has a brand new show on times radio. he s also the chairman of the spectator group. and we rejoined by caroline waterston, the relatively new editor in chief of the daily mirror. yeah, we ve also got two guests coming out of the states one, katie notopoulos, who s the senior tech and business correspondent at business insider. but the first person we spoke to isjeffrey goldberg, who is editor in chief of the atlantic. and we started off by asking him just to sum up what the atlantic is. how is that even possible? on the rare. just in case people don t know, it s a 167 year old magazine founded in boston. 1s. 1850s, before the civil war. politics, culture, literature, remains committed to those coverage areas today. but we try to explain america to itself to some degree. i think that s one of our purposes. we have a monthly magazine with a large subscriber base. we have a million subscribers, including digital subscribers. we reach a pretty wide array of people across the us and other parts of the english speaking world. and i think i m right in saying you re privately owned by emerson collective, which is an organisation set up by laurene powelljobs, widow of the apple founder stevejobs. just explain to us how that works. yeah. laurene and emerson collective bought the atlantic seven years ago. it works, knock on wood, wonderfully well. she s a great owner. we have complete editorial independence. she s very supportive of the mission, as is the whole organisation. we re a for profit organisation, although emerson collective has a for profit and a not for profit, separate wings. we are profitable on our own, which is a good thing and fairly rare these days. i m just thinking about. i ve been thinking about the washington post a lot of the last couple of days. well, we definitely want to ask you about some of the announcements at the washington post. and we want to ask you about your route to profitability, because that was one of the reasons we were so interested to have you on the programme. before we get into the details of what you ve done at the atlantic, ijust with katie s help as well, and a guest who sjoining us want to put what the atlantic is trying to do and what all publications in the news arena are trying to do in some context. yes, because katie notopoulos is from business insider, and ijust thought it d be useful if she just gave us a recap on the structural problems facing the industry. because, katie, you know, as has already been mentioned, much of this comes back to advertising, doesn t it? right. so one of the biggest problems isjust that| digital advertising - which was what supported journalism for many . decades or centuries has sort of dried up. facebook and google are very effective at being digital- advertisers, and they ve just sucked up a lot of the - ad dollars out there. so if you re a brand i like pepsi, it s easier to put your dollars somewhere else than to run an ad - in a publication. and that has really affected . the industry across the board. and you obviously. there s a lot of other| factors going on, just the rise of digital, - and therefore print is not as popular as it used to be. but i think. you know, there are some bright i spots, and there s reason to be i hopeful about the state - ofjournalism and being able to sustain media businesses. katie, thank you. jeffrey goldberg from the atlantic, let s bring you back in. you launched your online paywall in 2019. tell us about that decision and what s happened since. yeah, well, it turned out to be excellent timing, because the pandemic hit the next year and advertising bottomed out. we re holding our own on advertising. we have good people doing it. and, you know, it s not going to be the primary source of revenue for this company going into the future. we ve switched, actually, since 2019. we re now majority. you know, the bulk of our revenue comes from subscriptions, the consumer business, not advertising, but advertising is still an important part. but we launched this paywall. i mean, obviously, we re a print. we ve been a print magazine since the 1850s. we ve had long experience of being a subscription based organisation. when we entered the internet in a big way in the mid 90s, late 90s, obviously programmatic ad revenue, other forms of advertising, became huge for us. but we finally decided, the company finally decided in 2019 to launch a paywall for a digital product. and thank god we did, because a combination of pandemic news and trump news really accelerated our growth in the next couple of years. and that brought us, we just crossed a million subscribers total. half of those. roughly half of those subscribers are print and digital and half roughly half are digital only. all news organisations are diversifying the type of content that they re making. i wonder, aside from the trademark atlantic long articles which many people will know, what else you offer digital subscribers? well, we have a daily report. you know, we re not building a second newsroom, or a third newsroom in the washington post case, for tiktok videos or whatever it is that they re doing. you don t sound overly impressed, jeffrey. no, i m just feeling generally dyspeptic today. so you re just getting. just getting a general vibe. hopefully, that s nothing to do with you coming on the media show! god, no. glad to hear it. just checking. this is the only meeting i m looking forward to today. sorry, we interrupted you. no, no, no. it s ok. i d rather make jokes than talk about the business ofjournalism. i think that. so when i started as editor eight years ago, you know, all i wanted to do, and i have, you know, laurene s100% backing on this, make highest qualityjournalism, because highest quality journalism is the only thing that people will pay for. you know, if we had put all of our eggs in the programmatic ad revenue basket, we d be in bad shape, and so on. and so i think doubling down on what you do best, and doubling down on making a unique. unique stories that people will actually pay you for to read is the way to go. and so we have a much more. you know, obviously, 30 years ago, before the internet, the atlantic came out, it was a, you know, more leisurely paced thing. today, we publish every day. we publish, you know, every hour in busy times. but we re still trying to maintain that level of quality and differentiation so that we can convince readers to become subscribers. i m going to pause you there, sorry, just to bring in andrew neil, because some of this with your spectator hat on must be sounding quite familiar. jeffrey s talking about a million subscribers. how. you re a subscription model as well? we are a subscription model. the spectator has about 100,000 subscribers in the uk, 20,000 in america, because we just launched there, and about 12,000 in australia. if you get the business model right, the digital age can be a golden age forjournalism and publications like atlantic monthly and the spectator. but you need to get it right, and you need to realise that the old business models will bankrupt you. so when i took over the spectator in 2005, 65% of our revenues came from advertising. today, it s less than 10%. advertising is only our third biggest revenue stream. we ve had to seek new revenue streams. we put a very tough paywall up about 12, 14 years ago. 80% of our revenues now come from subscription. and it s a wonderful business model, because subscription revenues are predictable. i know within 5% plus or minus what s coming in this year, because i know the renewal rate, i know what the marketing will produce, and it s not subject to the economic cycle, unlike advertising, which is highly unpredictable. so you get that right and you re a golden age. the poster child of all this, of course, is the new york times, which now has nine million subscribers, more foreign correspondents than it s ever had in its history. and they got in early, didn t they? that was part of it. they got in early, as some of us did too. the times and the sunday times in this country are now highly profitable on the subscription model. and then you need to look, in addition to subscription revenue, for other streams of revenue, streams that you would never have thought of before. so, for example, of course, you still take some advertising. you take very little programmatic. because here s the problem if you re a subscription model, you re providing a premium website, and you don t want your website punctuated by endless ads for things that you have no control over. so you really need to control that. and you re talking about digital dimes in terms of programmatic, but instead, you do newsletters, you do podcasts, you have spectator tv and other ventures like that. and above all, our second biggest stream of revenue events we do events that expand the brand and bring in a ton of money. ok, caroline waterston, i want to bring you in because this presumably isn t sounding very familiar to you because it isn t something that you re doing at the mirror. have you ever thought about subscription? have you ever thought about a paywall? it s not on the mirror s agenda. i mean, certainly from my point of view and from the mirror s point of view, you know, i believe that our content should be available to a wide community and not just those that can afford it. you know, we are a news brand. i want to ensure that everyone has access to our content, and certainly it s not on our agenda. but what does that mean financially? you re taking a hit. do you believe.? i mean, are.? are you essentially of the belief that a paywall is this too dramatic, a paywall is a threat to democracy? is that how you see it? no, it s just not on our agenda at the moment. that s because it doesn t work. we talked. well. for red top tabloids, it doesn t work. the sun tried it and had to abandon it. you know, it s different with atlantic, spectator, times, sunday times, financial times. people are willing to pay. ..new york times. people are willing to pay for that kind ofjournalism. the problem with what we used to call the red top tabloids is that people won t pay for it digitally. of course, in the old days, they paid for it by putting their money down to buy the paper. but it seems that a lot of that kind of content, they think they can already get almost for free on the net. so they re not. it s a. of allthe. you know, all of our industry from the top to the bottom has had to withgo digital waves of change. the toughest part of the market to get right is the red top tabloid part of the market, because the subscription model doesn t work. caroline? yeah. and, look, good quality journalism is exactly what we want to do. but good quality journalism shouldn tjust be available to those that can afford to pay it. so, yes, we are an ad model. ads help fund.ourjournalism. and certainly. that s where we are at the moment. in terms of the experience of the user, the digital user of yourjournalism, do you have any concerns that the proliferation of adverts, which you need in order to fund the work you re doing, lessens the experience? look, it s something i think about every day, but, you know, ads are a part of life, and certainly from the mirror s point of view, we have to produce good quality journalism, and ads help us do that. 0k. let s bring you back in, jeffrey goldberg, because what about your experience in the us, particularly relating to donald trump, who we know back in 2016 drove huge levels of news and news related content consumption? are you seeing the same thing this time around? 2016 and 2020. i wouldn t say. well, first of all, we have a much tougher paywall, so that limits the sort of explosive numbers that you would have seen 2020, 2016, in particular. i think there s also fatigue. you know, these are. these are characters in now what would be called a long running drama, right? trump and biden as well. i think there is some fatigue with it. all that being said, yeah, there s. there s obviously an unusual election taking place. i m trying to use the most anodyne words possible. there s a consequential election taking place and people are. our kind of reader in particular is going to be very engaged in it. but, you know and i think this is a lesson from the washington post in a way you can tjust assume that political news will continually spike for you. i mean, you have to do the thing that s the right thing to do for your publication. it s mission first. and if you forget that, you re going to lose your subscribers eventually anyway. butl. we re not going to see the same crazy numbers that we saw in the past. but obviously, this is not a normal election. and trump does draw an extraordinary amount of attention. i want to ask you further about trump, but you ve alluded to the washington post a couple of times. we should say that on monday, sally buzbee, we heard, was leaving her role as the washington post s executive editor, to be replaced by robert winnett from the daily telegraph. and will lewis, who s the ceo of the washington post, said, we are losing large amounts of money. your audience. this is to staff. your audience has halved in recent years. people are not reading your stuff. i can t sugar coat it any more. so the washington post is looking to change its strategy. but coming back more broadly to donald trump, this is a question we ve asked a number of times on the media show over the years, but it doesn t make it any less pressing. you ve called the election consequential and unusual i m sure there are other words you would use, too. how do you, as the editor of a hugely consequential magazine and publication in the us, approach the challenge of covering donald trump? and i m interested to ask andrew and caroline the same question afterwards. you know, we. we had this problem in 2016, where we were trying to. you know, we were following the old rules, you know, to some degree, which is. and the old rules were the old rules of coverage, what people would call both sider ism. the old rules worked.when you had candidates who operated within certain lanes, lanes of self restraint, lanes of adherence to democratic norms, when candidates felt shame and repositioned themselves based on feedback, regarding the things that they do. you know, the most important thing for me, and, you know, we try to get it right, and a lot of other people are trying to get it right, and a lot of people are trying to catch up the most important thing is that we describe things plainly. right? not euphemise, because donald trump s behaviour is so novel i mean, it s not novel any more, but it s still novel historically and that. you know, and that we don t become. and this is what i m always encouraging our staff about. we don t normalise to this. our own, you know. oh, well, trumpjust said that, you know, the north korean dictator s head is made of cheese. oh, who cares? he always says stuff like that. no, and we have to do it every. we have to report the oddness, whenever it erupts, and that. by the way, this means. we re notjoining the resistance. we neverjoined the resistance, which means we also questionjoe biden s capacities, for instance. that s how you re approaching it at the atlantic. i wonderfor the daily mirror here in the uk, caroline, how do you.? do you approach donald trump like any other politician? or are there particular things you tell your colleagues look, we have to be careful here ? look, trump is an interesting character, but at the weekend, you ll hopefully have seen we actually had the world exclusive of stormy daniels, post everything that happened last week. and, you know, the content that comes out of trump in his everyday life and how he acts, i mean, it creates brilliant, brilliant content for our audience. that s honest. yeah. andrew, let me bring you in here now, because we have senior british executives at the wall streetjournal, the washington post, cnn and bloomberg news. what do you make of this exodus of senior british editors in the direction of the us? bbc too. mark thompson. mark thompson, former bbc. ..is at cnn and was at the new york times. of course, we always put ourselves down, but british journalism is vibrant and dynamic and hugely successful. and we know how to write and we know how to write concisely. well, not for the first time on the media show, we ve been talking about artificial intelligence, and the item that we re going to see now is all about search results that are being produced by new ai products. yeah, this is quite a fun one because google has got a new search called ai overview, a search product, and it is coming up in some cases with some pretty crazy results. and i started by asking katie notopoulos, who s the senior tech and business correspondent of business insider, tojust explain how it all works. so it s not on every single search, it s only on certain searches, typically ones that are sort of asking a specific question versus, you know, searching somebody s name or something like that. and it basically gives you a little bit of. maybe a couple sentences, a little paragraph, maybe a few bullet points that essentially answers your question. and this is probably very useful for most searches most of the time. but it was initially sort of riddled with laughable errors. i mean, one of the things that i do know that you did this really is dedication to yourjob you made a pizza with glue and ate it. just explain why you did that. slightly gimmicky. i m assuming it was for a piece. it was. piece of pizza! americanjournalists are ready. all in the line of duty. ..to undertake these big challenges. laughter. yeah, some people have to cover donald trump s trial. some people have to eat pizza with glue on it. right. basically sounds like i the same thing, really. exactly. laughter. one of the sort of silly answer that was going most viral on social media was someone had asked, how do i get the glued cheese to not slide off my pizza? and google suggested, you know, let the pizza cool for a while. and then it also said, add one eighth of a cup of glue to the sauce. so you re the only person in america who did it. ..it had sourced that little piece of information from a reddit comment that had suggested that obviously as a joke. and everyone on reddit at the time, when they were reading it, could understand in context that the person was making a joke that to keep the cheese from sliding off your pizza, you should add glue to the sauce. google sort of couldn t understand that this was satire, that it was a joke. so, not great. i mean, ijust should bring in. well, google have said about this, because they ve told the bbc, these were isolated examples, generally very uncommon queries, and they aren t representative of most people s experiences, and that the vast majority, it says, of ai overviews, provide high quality information with links to dig deeper on the web. and it said it s taken action where policy violations were identified and it was using them to refine its systems. just in the last couple of minutes of the programme, let me ask a further question about al, and it comes down to when big organisations that have content, like the atlantic or the spectator or the mirror, decide whether or not to share all of that content with the big language models that are training generative ai. and jeffrey at the atlantic, jeffrey goldberg, you ve cut a deal with openai. tell us about the discussions within the atlantic, whether you were weighing up whether to do that or not. well, ijust have to be technically clear about something. the editorial team has independence from the business side of this operation, but the business side has independence from the editorial side. and this was a decision made by the corporation and by our business leadership to do this. and so.i was certainly told about it, and i was.invited to share my views on it, but, you know, i. what are your views on it? well, i have my ambivalence about it. i mean, i don t want to. i forget who was saying this before, but, you know, the internet has turns out been great for a place like the atlantic. we reach many, many more people than we used to because of the internet. i don t want to be, you know, sort of axiomatically luddite about this sort of thing and say, ai is only a threat, but i have my deep ambivalences about.ai and what it s going to do tojournalism and also, by the way, humanity and the future of our planet. all that being said, ai is coming whether or not i want it to come. and it s a little bit like, to me, complaining about the weather. the weather doesn t care that i don t like it. so i ve got to dress for the weather, and dressing for the weather in this case means trying to figure out a way to have a relationship with openai, in which openai doesn t eat you for lunch. let me just ask quickly caroline and andrew very quickly, if you would. caroline, how s the daily mirror viewing the idea of sharing its content with these ai, these big ai operators? we wouldn t. - we wouldn t want to. you re not planning to do that yet? no, we re not- planning to do that. and the spectator? we won t do that until we know a lot more about it. if it s another potential stream of revenue that doesn t carry risks, that s one thing. but we need to know a lot more. for me, the al s biggest opportunity is on the commercial side. i think a lot of the ai can help us run the company commercially much better. we can learn more about our readers, about usage of the app, usage of the website. all that sort of thing is fine, but forthe moment, i ll keep editorial separate. and i lljust add, the new york times is taking a very different approach to this. it s not collaborating with openai. in fact, it s suing for the theft of its content. so we re going to watch how that plays out. and i was at the enders deloitte media conference yesterday, where anna bateson, who runs the guardian, said they would do a deal with an ai company, but only on the right terms. so there you go. well. something to end on, because that is all we have time for, i m afraid. thank you so much to katie notopoulos from business insider and, of course, andrew neil from times radio, but also the spectator. and caroline waterston, editor in chief of the mirror, and jeffrey goldberg, editor in chief of the atlantic. well, thanks very much indeed to all of our guests. fascinating to hear their perspectives on all those issues. i suspect it won t be the last time we turn to ai, to business models of news, to covering donald trump, but it was very interesting to hear from all of them. i think you re right. thank you so much to everybody. that was the media show. we ll be back at the same time next week. bye. bye bye. and if you d like to hear a longer version of today s show, search bbc the media show wherever you get your bbc podcasts. hello there. wind coming from the north at times. temperatures are struggled to get into double figures but a slightly different story further south and west, just look at anglesey, a beautiful afternoon and lots of sunshine. temperatures peaking at 18 or 19 degrees. high pressure continuing its way in from the west, west is the best for tuesday, likely to be a few showers around but hopefully if you would far between. most frequently will be across is in scotland and eastern england. sunny spells and scattered showers going into the afternoon, having an impact with a temperature, but again with a temperature, but again with more shelter and sunshine, 17 or 18 degrees is not out of the question. scattered showers moving their way through northern ireland and scotland, hopefully they will ease over the afternoon. you can see the temperatures are still struggling. 10 15 degrees at the best. going into wednesday, the best. going into wednesday, the high pressure will continue to kill off the showers, so wednesday is likely to be the driest day of the week and make the most of it, more rain to come. a chilly start once again for wednesday morning, single figures right across the country, low single figures in auroral spots. hopefully the showers will be few and far between and more favoured spots for the showers once again to the east. more sunshine to the west. temperature is generally similar to what we have seen all week, 10 80 degrees. the wind will change as we move into thursday, unfortunately towards the end of the week the low pressure will take over and we will see spells of rain at times, some heavy but the wind direction it will play its part. a southwesterly wind means we are the temperatures are climbing a degree also, do not anything to significant because we have the cloud and the rain. not out of the question in eastern england because the highs of 20 degrees. take care. live from washington. this is bbc news. hamas submits its response to a us led ceasefire proposal, but says israel needs to commit to completely stopping the war. us presidentjoe biden s son hunter, is found guilty on all three charges in his federal gun case. and malawi s vice president, saulos chilima was killed in a plane crash, along with nine other passengers. i m sumi somaskanda. it s great to have you with us. the white house says its evaluating an official response by hamas to the latest proposal for a truce in the gaza conflict. us presidentjoe biden submitted the proposal about 12 days ago. earliertuesday, hamas said it has a positive
and tonight during the broadcast i will do an exclusive first-time interview with house speaker mike johnson and hakeem jeffries, minority leader. he used to play and a fan of the new york yankees. i ll be doing color commentary on fs1 and the washington capital handles play-by-play and congressional baseball shooting is now available on fox nation. guys, back to you. steve: we ll be watching. thanks, chad. ainsley: everyone have a wonderful day. see you tomorrow. lawrence: a fun show. brian in dallas, back on the couch tomorrow. steve: have a great day. america s newsroom starts now. bill: good morning. so two weeks and two trips to europe. president biden heading to italy for a g7 summit. yesterday around this time he met with his son, hunter, after his felony gun charge conviction. will a change of scenery satisfies. we ve seen the threat from foreign terrorists rise to another level. by no means a time to let up or dial back. now, on top of that, increasingly concerning is the potential for a coordinated attack here in the homeland. bill: that was eight days ago. that was chris wray head of the f.b.i. warning us. now it s happened. eight migrants with ties to arrested tied to isis crossing the border illegally. that s where we start. i m bill hemmer. dana: good to be here with you. i m dana perino and this is america s newsroom. the migrants came here from kazakhstan and a source tells fox they were fully vetted at the southern border and yet nothing was flagged. ice caught up with them in philadelphia, new york and los angeles. it begs the question who else is coming across that border? dana: team fox coverage. paul mauro is here with us and first to alexis mcadams on the streets of new york with more. hi. good morning. right now we know those eight kazakhstan nationals are in ice custody after being arrested. majority were arrested here in new york city. exactly where in the city we re trying to figure that out. this morning a democratic councilman says it s another example of a broken southern border that he says the president needs to fix quickly. he says he doesn t know what will happen next in new york city. listen. it s frightening. we re headed for another 9/11. i predicted that. i think we should have a secure border. we should know who is coming into our country. we don t. and millions of migrants and illegal aliens have gotten through. it is a situation that we re rolling the dice here. a group of can kazakhstan nationals were taken into custody. how did they enter the united states in the first place is the question. sources telling fox they crossed illegally at the southern border and were fully vetted. but listen to this. nothing was flagged somehow. it was only after they were already released into the u.s. that customs and border patrol were notified about these major security concerns. so this ice sting took place in three major cities, new york, philadelphia, and in los angeles. according to the new york post, the feds used a wiretap to listen in on these phone calls from the people. hearing one of those arrested talking about bombs. former ice director tom homan says it s an example of a dangerous trend. under 3 1/2 years of biden they have a historic number of russian nationals at the southern border. these numbers are unprecedented. you look at the people on the terrorist watch list, over 380 on the southern border. you heard those numbers, shocking. 380 at the southern border and counting. the department of homeland security and f.b.i. are working this case. they know about that heightened threat and saying they do everything they can around the clock to keep americans safe. dana: thank you. bill: analysis with paul mauro. good morning to you. you have a lot of contacts in new york. want to show alexis and talking about the stunning numbers. known gotaways last year, 670,000. who are they? where are they coming from? on and on the questions go. what do you have for us today? what a paradigm event this is. how much is revealed in this takedown and where they came from and how they came through. as the saying goes in the intelligence world, the further we get from 9/11 the closer we get to 9/ten. when we used to do counter terrorism in new york, i did it half my career, the idea that you could get somebody who came in and was a complete clean skin and no friction at the border and we knew nothing about was a major red flag. the idea we have millions of such people coming into the country right now defies belief. when you look at the fact that these were people who carried out the 144 murders in moscow recently in an operation the head of the f.b.i. is saying he is concerned about mirroring here, it tells you what we re into here. the disconnect within the federal government seems to be income present henceible. you have the intelligence arm ringing every bell and they are oblivious and don t want to hear about it. the only thing to get their attention is another 9/11. i hate to say that. i understand another thing here. they didn t have enough to get these guys on terrorism charges. three cities, cover them 24/seven. not sure how they picked them up. i can surmise. now according to the statement they will kick them out. they aren t arrested here which means you are sending back eight terrorist operatives potentially into bad guy territory with knowledge of the area, with having done recon, they know the train and bus routes and have funding. this is exactly what you don t want. this is what we re enabling through our southern border. dana: what about the burden and strain on law enforcement and intelligence offices around the country then? regular stuff to deal with and how much more pressure does this put on top of them? a ton. you aren t getting the help from the federal government you want. that s why wray was on the hill advocating for the f.b.i. funding not to get cut because he needs the bodies. this is a perfect example. eight people out there talking about bombs. they picked them up on a wiretap. i don t know if it s fisa or not. you say to yourself okay. talking about bombs. they killed 144 people in moscow, isis-k. none can be out of our sight. teams to cover eight people 24/seven. if they get away you ll have to answer to the man and to yourself. bill: not just christopher wray, merrick garland and there was a piece written. you mentioned the attack in moscow. that was low-tech terror. all they used was semi automatic weapons and took out a ton of people. based on what you know about sting operations, how do you know where the go signal is? you hear them mention the word bomb or shooting. how do you know to make good question. let me tell you how this went. they had three different teams coordinated in three different cities. an umbrella over it run out of washington. at some point you go up high enough and get to the one person who will make the call. the one person making the call certainly in the counter terrorism division in washington is looking out over the field here waiting to get probable cause to federal terrorism arrests. that s what you want. that s the big hammer. you can hang onto these guys and get phones and coms and talk to them and maybe flip somebody. what happened here is they hit the end of the line and had to make a call this is getting dangerous and we don t have what i just described. i m not giving anything up by that. very clearly they are only in ice custody pending deportation. unless they develop somethinging through their devices what they had to do is move quicker than they wanted to because they were worried. and that is a very discomforting thing. bill: why you don t keep them here and prosecute them? if they get away, they have enough trade craft. we can t get a source into them, it is not going the way we want and maybe they lost one for a while and got nervous. at some point somebody says take it down. i m speaking we hit the f.b.i. plenty on this network and i have done it. that s their leadership. the rank and file i can guarantee you 40 f.b.i. agents and ice guys who were up all night probably for months making sure they put them to bed at night and wake them up in the morning. let s take them off the set however we can. i used to send guys to knock on a door and say hello as a message when i didn t just to say we know who you are. at some point you hit the end of the line and do something. dana: so much pressure. it reminds me of what president bush used to say. the terrorists only have to be right once. we have to be right however many times and it means the federal government should do what it can to give local law enforcement what it needs, which is first of all closing the southern border legitimately. we ve already let millions in and we don t know where and who they are. we don t know anything about them. the muslim band, a complete misnomeer. people coming in with a nation not cooperating with us and won t give us a background. we have no idea who they are. they were vetted. you know how long that took? seconds. what are you going to do, call the country and get background on these guys? not going to happen. bill: we ll lean on you soon. congressman mike waltz and jason crowe will join us on america s newsroom momentarily. dana: arrivals gate nightmare. hundreds of migrants sprawling across boston s logan airport using baggage claim as shelter and blankets as beds. the city is running out of options. housing capacity has been filled for months. what is the president doing to help the blue city? we don t know. molly line is at the airport with more. good morning. essentially boston s logan airport is flooded with migrants with no place else to go. a state where the shelter system is overwhelmed and has been for months now. overnight more than 100 migrants sleeping in the wide hallway here in the airport s terminal e, the sfwir national terminal. families and children running around crowded onto mats, blankets on the hard floors. the number of people using the logan airport has shelter has ebbed and flowed. headlines have been made in the news since january. it forced state leaders to take creative measures to find housing solution, mass hotel rentals and much more controversial measures like the cakeover of a community center in boston. a move that forced many of the programs that serve the city s disadvantaged youth to find new spaces and expected to reopen as summer gets underway. later this month a former minimum security prison in norfolk, massachusetts is slated to be repurposed opened as a temporary shelter for 450 people. cafeteria, gym, play spaces for children and classrooms for adults. massachusetts, it is a one-of-a-kind right to shelter state. a law here. under the historic strain of the new arrivals in april the state s democrat governor signed into law a nine month limit on how long families can reside in emergency shelters. it is worth noting there are a number of ways that families can extend their stays beyond that 90 days including meeting requirements for employment and job training and various medical conditions, pregnancy and disability status and educational disruption for children and that sort of thing. dana: thank you. we ll keep an eye on it. it is unfortunate he is convicted but him being the son is not what i m thinking. i m thinking that he did a bad thing and actions have consequences. bill: from the mouth of a juror speaking out on the decision to convict hunter biden. this as the president makes a surprise trip to comfort his son throwing his travel plans off for a bit. seems to me he was trying to point a lot of fingers to other individuals or bodies to try to deflect some of the accountability. dana: former new york governor andrew cuomo shifting the blame for nursing home deaths during covid. what he told lawmakers on capitol hill. bill: scary moments in new york city. mass protestors giving an ultimatum to those riding a subway. raise your hands if you re a zionist. this is your chance to get out. okay, no zionists, we re good. shop our expanded family of products at major online retailers. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ( ) bill: a russian naval warship arriving in havana, cuba, where they ll conduct military exercises for a period of time. interesting to note putin given his threats last week against western european countries and united states using our military weapons on behalf of ukrainians inside russia. there are hypersonic missiles that are on board these naval ships out of russia. just a story to watch and keep an eye on as they go through this for the next several days and possibly longer. putin is sending a message here in our hemisphere as well. 19 past. dana: hamas responding to a u.s. banked cease-fire proposal. it has not accepted or rejected the deal. israel has signaled its openness to the plan but stopped short of endorsing it. alex hogan is live from london with the latest. hi. so u.s. secretary of state antony blinken finished speaking about hamas s response saying some of the proposed changes are workable. some simply are not. hamas waited nearly two weeks and then proposed more changes. a number of which go beyond positions that it previously had taken and accepted. u.s. says it is evaluating hamas s response now. egypt and qatar released joint statements saying they re working together to coordinate how to move forward. israel fired back saying it s a rejection. also follows news reported by the wall street journal in leaked messages from hamas leader sinwar that said hamas has the upper hand and thousands of civilian casualties are, quote, necessary sacrifices. israel today releasing this video of the idf taking out what it says was a command center in lebanon. one of the most senior hamas commanders was killed. comments from blinken, he says in the following weeks we ll hear more information what will come next a day after reconstruction and how to make the pause in the fighting a cease-fire a long lasting end to the war. dana: alex, thank you. we have two very different opinions on what happened during covid. i think the federal government failed this nation and it was abyss mal. bill: andrew cuomo passing the buck in the early days of covid policies. it forced nursing homes to take patients who had tested positive for the virus and many argue that decision led to needless more deaths. maybe thousands of them. republican nichole malliotakis from new york is with me now and she was in the room yesterday. good morning to you. what were you able to determine, do you think? maybe something you either didn t know before or maybe gave you confirmation. shocking was the governor claiming he did not know anything about that march 25th order that his administration issued on a nursing homes to accept these individuals. i never heard that before that he completely did know it existed until a month later. when asked who authorized it, it was his letter and name and commissioner of health s name on the letterhead he said we don t know. i think it was probably done at the staff level. how is that possible that the governor of the state of new york who did 111 daily briefings basically got an emmy for his performance in these briefings knowing all the details of what was going on in new york state acting as the king of new york, did not know about this deadly mandate until a month latter when all the other local elected officials people like me and state legislature knew and telling the executive chamber about our concerns and the nursing homes were reaching out to all elected officials expressing the concern. what we learned yesterday is that he is not going to take accountability or apologize and when asked whether he would change that order today, knowing what he knows now with thousands of new yorkers, elderly new yorkers who were killed as a result, he said no. in fact, he would explain it more and communicate it more. nursing homes didn t understand they could reject people if they could not care for them. he didn t try to pivot the blame on the nursing homes who had no choice but to accept these people because the mandate language was clear. it was clear. they were forced to take these people whether they could care for them, whether they had the proper staffing levels or separate them positive or negative or whether they had the ppe. bill: let me a couple of things here. another sound bite from the governor maintaining his innocence. roll this first. department of justice found we did nothing wrong. the investigations found that the new york advisory was wholely consistent with the federal guidance set by cms and cdc. two investigations found exactly that, that what new york did was implement the federal guidance. bill: i imagine he said a lot of that behind closed doors. the numbers in new york. covid confirmed deaths at nursing homes, 6926. confirmed out of facility deaths 4600. presumed deaths at the nursing home. the numbers are staggering just shy of 15,000. you mentioned this directive on the 25th of march. is it possible between his daily briefings that began on march 2nd and went through june 19th, is it possible we just did not understand enough about the virus at that time? well, look, i think you could give the benefit of the doubt if the language was not written as it was. the cms and cdc guidelines were very clear making a recommendation that you could accept patients who were being discharged from the hospitals into a nursing home setting if you had the ability to separate and care for them in the proper staffing levels. his mandate was not a recommendation, it was they shall do it and that they could not test them to see if they were positive before accepting them. they literally prohibited the nursing homes from testing these patients to see if they were still positive before accepting them and no ability in this mandate to reject a nursing home patient if you could not care for them. that was the biggest issue. they were not given the proper ppe to deal with the issue at hand. so the governor again deflecting and pointing fingers. the buck stops with him accountability. bill: will there be a public hearing? i believe so. i think there is a lot of questions that a lot of things that were discrepancies between what his administration officials told us and what the governor said yesterday and also did not use the additional measures that were set up. u.s. navy comfort ship and java center. it was here. didn t get patients. thank you for your time and see what comes of it. it was the story in new york that shut down the entire country. i believe it to this day but it started here. thank you for your time and we ll talk again. dana. dana: president biden looking for legitimacy on the world stage following his son s conviction. can he pull his son s legal troubles in the rearview mirror? 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( ) ( ) vabysmo works differently, it s the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don t take it if you have an infection, active eye swelling, or are allergic to it. treatments like vabysmo can cause an eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. there is an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye can occur. most common eye side effects were cataract and broken blood vessels. open up your world with vabysmo. a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor. are you keeping as much of your investment gains as possible? high taxes can erode returns quickly. at creative planning, your portfolio is managed in a tax-efficient manner. it s what you keep that really matters. book your free meeting today at creativeplanning.com. it s time to feed the dogs real food, not highly processed pellets. the farmer s dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. it s not dry food. it s not wet food. it s just real food. it s an idea whose time has come. bill: 9:31 in new york. americans eagerly awaiting entering the housing market . corporate investors are coursing them to slam on the brakes beating homeowners to the dotted line. what does it mean for you? we have the story from atlanta. as housing prices and interest rates increase, the renter market is heating up. corporate investors are trying to get in on the action buying up large numbers of starter homes in booming real estate markets especially in the sun belt. the situation was studied in atlanta which leads the nation in this trend. everyone rental homes are owned by institution investors, which means more than 1,000 homes nationwide. these are really big corporations. experts say it drives up home prices in surrounding neighborhoods and makes it harder for individuals and families to get in. that can be tough competition for first time home buyers, investors come in with more cash and buying outright with cash on bigger down payments and a more competitive offer. they recommend small home buyers study loan options and get pre-approval to make an immediate offer. institutional investors is a smaller and growing trend of building new homes for the sole purpose of renting them. new build to rent homes surged from just over 6700 in 2019 to more than 27,000 last year with t the while less is known about the short term impact of this, some experts believe there will be a long-term benefit because it is creating more housing stock, which is something we desperately need in this country. and sooner or later, corporate landlords do become sellers. bill. bill: i guess that s true. that s the market. thanks, jonathan serrie in atlanta for that. thank you. can t help but think [inaudible] focus more on what the defense and prosecution are saying. so that s basically what i try i try to block the rest of it out and just [inaudible]. dana: hunter biden found guilty in his federal gun case and the president making a surprise trip to delaware embracing his son on the tarmac showing support before he went to italy today. they put out a statement. jill and i love our son and so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love come out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. want to bring in our panel. andrew cherkasky, former federal prosecutor and tim murtaugh. tim, we ve had legal analysis. you wrote a touching and thoughtful tweet thread yesterday or x post thread because you are a recovering addict and wrote a book about that and open about what it has been like but you also understand politics. let s get your take this morning on how you woke up thinking about it today. well, i appreciate you having me on, dana and mentioning the book. i wrote it called swing hard. my life in politics and battling with alcohol and so i do have empathy and sympathy for hunter biden and his family. i know what it is like to be an addict. my drug of choice was alcohol. and the toll it takes on family and what i put my family, wife, parents, brother, everybody through during it. i have empathy for joe and jill biden as well. alcoholism or addiction is not about it s not a defense against all other criminal activity. i was convicted of two duis. i pled guilty. i couldn t go into court and say i was guilty of driving under the influence but in my defense i was drunk at the time. it doesn t work and should not be a shield. the fact that hunter is an addict. i have sympathy for him being an addict. it should not be used as a shield to protect the rest of the bidens from his involvement in the criminal enterprise that i believe the biden family has been engaged on. they sent hunter out to be the bag man representing the family to collect millions of dollars from foreign interests and i actually believe the d.o.j. is prosecuting this gun crime so that they don t have to go after the crimes that lead directly to joe. this gun crime is the only crime that you can charge hunter biden with that does not lead back to his father, the president of the united states, who also happens to be the ultimate boss of the prosecutors making this decision. so yes, i have empathy. bill: swing hard in case you hit it is the name of the book. well stated. andrew, it defies logic. a year ago you had a probation only case and he walked away from it. a year ago he would have had immunity from further legal jeopardy. now what do you have? a conviction yesterday and now you have the tax issue in september in california. i think that hunter biden s decision to plead not guilty and take it to trial has proven politically disastrous for the biden family at large. it proves once and for all the biden family effective interfered with the 2020 election by covering up that laptop. coming in as evidence this laptop that was declared to be russian disinformation in the lead-up to the 2020 election. things the left media and social media stripped from the internet and stripped from the airwaves proves to be quite true. in fact, the d.o.j. using it as a piece of evidence in this trial. it is hard to imagine that joe biden never said to his son, who is so close with, is that laptop real? is that your laptop? hunter biden knew all along that was his laptop as those 51 intelligence officers came forward, as joe biden denied it, as the media quashed that story. i think it is a really telling thing. time tends to dilute the impact of lies but what we have this conviction we have to turn back the clocks a little bit and see what this conviction means in light of what happened back in 2019 and 2020. dana: the chances of them winning on appeal are what, andrew? the second amendment issue is quite interesting here. it is currently up scheduled to be in front of the supreme court the 5th circuit had an interesting case on this dealing with marijuana. the applicable of the second amendment with folks who had past drug addiction and drug use is ambiguous. hunter biden s case is the prime example where you have somebody with frequency and recent to the gun purchase. i think that s a prime case where the law should apply. but there is some debate about the broadness and ambiguity of the law in concert and in consideration of the second amendment. that s an nra point that hunter biden took. bill: we ll bring you back between now and september. thanks for sharing your story, tim. dana reads sports. dana: so usa basketball defending its decision to leave caitlin clark off the olympic roster. the chair of the committee said it would be irresponsible for us to talk about her in a way other than how she would impact the play of the team because it wasn t the purview of our committee to decide how many people would watch or how many people would root for the u.s. it was our purview to create the best team we could for coach cheryl reeve. she is 15th in the wnba and first amongst rookies. bill: she has time. not the end of the world. she will be a player. she already is. maybe they will regret not having her. maybe they go and bring home gold. dana: maybe we could have her on fox and do color commentary for me so i understand what s going on. bill: we ll work on that. apparently they were arguing about something. bill: you had a commute home ending in a fatal tragedy. a gunman jumped on board a bus in atlanta. chase ensued and it was a mess. three decades in prison. pamela smart is making a stunning claim about the murder of her husband for the very first time. now that i am older and able to look back on things, i can see so many errors i made and how skewed my judgment was and how im mature i was. because there are places you d like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. far-xi-ga but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world. arthritis pain? 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- [announcer] call right now to receive your free no-obligation info kit. call the number on your screen. page number 9s1307. crime of conspiracy to commit murder. is the defendant guilty or not guilty? guilty. bill: guilty verdict 33 years ago. pamela smart now taking responsibility for the murder of her husband. she was a former teacher convicted in 1991 of having an affair with a teenager and convincing him to kill her husband. now she is acknowledging her, quote, warped logic in a prison writing class. in those spaces is where i found myself responsible for something i desperately didn t want to be responsible for, my husband s murder. i had to acknowledge for the first time in my own heart and mind how responsible i was because i had deflected blame all the time. bill: wow. william flynn was a teenager who pulled the trigger. been a free man for the last nine years and served 25 years behind bars. pamela believes it is her time releasing the apology video she pleads for a sentence reduction from the governor of new hampshire. what is case that was and what a case it is again today. dana: eight suspected terrorists discovered to have crossed the southern border illegally heightening concerns about the border crisis posing a major security threat throughout the country. both these men sit on the intelligence and foreign affairs committee and good to have you here. pull this from the foreign affairs piece. it says that terrorism warning lights are blinking red again. echoes of the run-up to 9/11 written by ellison and mer yell. fortunately the united states has learned a great deal how to combat terrorist threats including threats not yet well defined. president joe biden and his administration should now use that playbook. i want to bring it up. jason, congressman from colorado, we just had the news about the eight terrorists arrested in ice custody coming across the southern border illegally fully vetted and only after that that local law enforcement caught onto it and it got to the point they could be detained. what is your level of concern? what could you share with the american people from your intel committee point of view? well, a couple of takeaways here. one i want to applaud the work of federal law enforcement for doing a superb job and local law enforcement for finding these suspected terrorists and in doing what they need to do to protect our country and our community. number two, this just continues to underscore the need for us to take up the bipartisan border bill. we need to secure the border. the border is not where it needs to be. there is no doubt about that. we need a comprehensive solution to that. i applaud the president for passing his executive order to clamp down on the border and now we need to fund it. he is limited what he can do without congressional action and time to move the bipartisan deal forward. dana: congressman waltz so many people have come across illegally. possibly vetted but we have hundreds of thousands if not millions of gotaways. we don t know who they are or where they are. we rely on tips for local law enforcement to move it up the chain. it feels like an overwhelming problem. your thoughts now. well, i think every american should be concerned. i, too, commend federal law enforcement for disrupting this isis plot. but with millions and millions coming across our border, dana, with the f.b.i. director saying he has never seen the threats this loud, i fear that it is just a matter of time until we re hit. today is the anniversary of pulse nightclub attack eight years ago outside my district in florida. that individual was on the terrorist watch list and killed almost 50 americans in a shooting. we now have over 400 people on the terrorist watch list that have come across our southern border and somewhere in america. and i want to tell director wray, go talk to the dhs secretary right down the street, mayorkas and shut the border down. and respectfully, i disagree having executive order that still allows 2500 a day or legislation that allows nearly 5,000 a day, that s nearly a million a year across our border, is unacceptable. we have to secure it before it is too late and we suffer another attack like post nightclub or god forbid another niefsh lev. dana: great for everyone to see the two of you on different sides of the aisle and same committee working toward important common goals. we ll watch the international criminal court and what you are trying to do to push them back after they went after israel. thank you so much. i want to leave here with this video. michael waltz, you jumped out of a plane on d-day and we thank you both for your service. here we go. along with jason crowe. a bipartisan jump. bipartisan jump with ten other members of congress and everybody came back safe and sound to honor our forefathers. dana: i didn t know you jumped as well. i m so proud. have a good time at the game if you go as guests since you are not players tonight. bill: good stuff. take me out to the ballgame and take me straight to jail. from cincinnati last night get a load of this. a fan runs on the field during the reds, guardians game. does a black flip. kicks off the cop s hat and charged with criminal trespassing and obstructing official business and that was that. it didn t last long. dana: they will prosecute him, right? not just let him out. bill: they shall in hamilton county. so many people had phones out watching this. i don t know how they got a heads-up on it but you got center field, you ve got first base, you got this one here. so dana: i didn t know gutfeld was at the game last night. that s a good one. no supervision, no parental presence is when the bad things happen. dana: frustration over rising crime amongst teenagers in chicago hitting the boiling point. will the democratic-run city back a new curfew? say goodbye to the champ. why joey chestnut is being banned from nathan s hot dog eating contest this year. i try to put my arm around any vet that i can. absolutely. at newday usa, that s what we re doing. we put our arm around the veterans. when i think of the veteran out there that needs to refi his home, he may want to purchase and we can help them and provide that financial solution for them and their families. it s a great, rewarding feeling. everybody in the company, they have that deference and that respect and that love for the veteran that makes this company so unique. veterans, need cash? 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(roommate) i did. bill: a chicago alderman fed up with surging crime among teenagers is now calling for a curfew downtown. but the democratic mayor is not on board this move. garrett tenney is in the windy city to tell us what s up. hello. this curfew would make it illegal for teenagers to be downtown after 8:00 p.m. without an adult and if requested it would require a parent or guardian to come down and pick it up. if it passes it hopes to prevent the teen take overs where crowds of young people commit crimes like the brutal attack on a husband and wife on their way home from dinner by more than a dozen teens just a couple of weeks ago. alderman brian hopkins says right now there is little deterrence for those teens who want to come downtown to cause trouble because they know they can get away with it. the arrest is always a last resort. not something that we want to do. but it is one of the limited tools that we have to use to get some respect for authority right now, which respect for authority is at all-time lows. mayor brandon johnson is against the new curfew. he told the chicago sun times editorial board all the data indicates that setting arbitrary curfews don t lead to any positive results. it is notable that while the mayor says curfews don t work the city has a 10:00 p.m. curfew in place for teens downtown enacted a couple of years ago. so far mayor johnson has chosen to keep that curfew in place. bill: convention is nine weeks from today. garrett tenney in downtown chicago. thank you. dana: president biden seeking legitimacy on the world stage one day after his son, hunter, became a convicted felon and two weeks before his first 2024 debate with former president donald trump. we are counting down already for that. welcome to a new hou
right now. fantastic. i just love hotdogs overall. there s nothing that says some are more than a nice hot dog especially one that s made in the finest city in the world at a baseball game. there s nothing better. i harry answered, i ll let you finish your food, please chu and shoe everybody and swallow and please don t show up. we re still on the year. all right. i ll be fine thanks a lot see a light, wash it down with a good beer. all right. see you later. and thank you for watching. i ll see you tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern right here on cnn anderson cooper 360 is next tonight on 360. what happens now that the president s son is a convicted felon and why supporters convicted felon who is running for president are still complaining about the criminal justice system, keeping them honest. also, a cnn exclusive course award goes inside a searing detention camp. were families, vices, fighters are being held and some fear of the next generation may be being born. plus we have breaking news tonight. a bus hijacking of chase and the deadly discovery at the end of it. good evening. thanks for joining as we begin tonight, keep them honest with three facts about hunter biden s conviction today and wilmington, delaware on federal gun charges. the first is the human impact. it must have on a family that has certainly known tragedy, including putting a car crash that killed hunter biden s mom and baby sister, the death to brain cancer of his brother, beau, and his own descendance itself, destruction by crack cocaine. in a moment, ronald reagan s daughter, patty davis joins us to talk about her own struggles with addiction the second fact is that despite efforts to paint his trial as a counterpart, two or even the equivalent of donald trump s new york trial unlike the former president, a hunter biden is not running for anything the third fact is the one thing they actually do have in common in each the guilty verdict was rendered by 12 men and women who heard the evidence and seem to have set aside any preconceptions they might have had going in as one biden juror told cnn today, politics played no part in their deliberations, nor did testimony about the degree of biden s addiction, which he described as heart-wrenching the verdict was unanimous. and just like in new york, there is every indication the criminal justice system worked and continues to beyond that, nearly everything surrounding the two trials and their aftermath is a study in contrast starting with how egypt defendant reacted to the verdict. quoting now from hunter biden statement, thanking his wife and others. i m more grateful today for the love and support i experienced this last week from melissa, my family, my friends, and my community than i am disappointed by the outcome. he goes on to say recovery is possible by the grace of god. and i am blessed to experience that give one de at a time. by contrast, here are some where the former president said after his conviction this was done by the biden administration in order to wound or hurt an opponent, a political opponent and i think it s just a disgrace. but this was a rig decision right from day one, with a conflicted judge or should have never been allowed to try this case, never well, he said as much over and over and so have republican lawmakers before, during and after the trial with a special focus on attacking the justice department and the criminal justice system every single person involved in this prosecution is practically a democratic political operative. this was not criminal justice. this was politics. the entire thing is political. it s political warfare, scam trial. this is a scam. it is a sham, sham of a trial. a sham convictions joe biden s to tier in justice system while keeping them on as they re talking about the justice department at which had nothing to do with the trump trial, which is currently prosecuting a democratic senator and congressmen. and just oversaw the conviction of the president is only surviving son and the president s reaction quoting him now, i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that he also told abc news he d ruled that a pardon for his son let me ask you, will you accept the jury s outcome, their verdict, no matter what it is? yes. and have you ruled out a pardon for your son? yes by contrast, the former president is now talking repeatedly about using the justice department if he s reelected as a tool of vengeance i. would have, every right to go after them and it s easy because it s joe biden and you see all the criminality, all of the money that s going into the family and him, all of this money from china, from russia from ukraine that s for republican lawmakers who decried trump s trial and conviction. consider house oversight chair james comer, who has been holding hearings and investigating the bidens for months, always claiming to have the goods, but always coming up empty. he is sticking to his story, tweeting today until the department of justice investigates everyone involved. the bidens corrupt influence, peddling schemes. it will be clear department officials continued to cover for the big guy, joe biden. more now, on the actual verdict and the actual trial and what comes next from cnn s paula reid just 90 minutes after hunter biden s guilty verdict, cnn got incredible insight into the case from juror number ten, won big mistake from the defense, calling hunters daughter naomi, to testify. i felt i felt bad that they put naomi as witness i i think that was probably a strategy that should not have been done. no daughter should ever have to testify or again, sorry despite feeling badly for hunter and his battles with addiction, the 12 jurors agree that they had no choice but to convict all 12 jurors agree that yes, he know i m laying in, bought a gun when he was an attic or he was addicted to drugs, although they all voted guilty, another juror, cnn spoke to off-camera question whether the case should have been brought in the first place, saying, quote, it seemed like a waste of taxpayer dollars and the jurors interviewed by cnn said politics played no role. in their decision. pressure, inviting never really even came in. to play for me. his name was only brought up one store in the trial and that s when i that s when i kind of sunk in a little bit. but you kind of put that out of your mind. president biden released a statement after his son s verdict saying, in part i am the president, but i am also a dad, jill, and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today and i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal contour issued a statement after court thanking his wife and supporters saying, i am more grateful today for the love and support i experienced this last week from melissa, my family, my friends, and my community, than i am disappointed by the outcome in spend special counsel, david weiss made aware statement defending the case, ultimately, this case was not just about objection a disease that haunts families across the united states including hunter biden s family. this case was about the illegal choices defendant made while in the throes of addiction his choice to lie on a government form when he bought a gun. and the choice to then possess that gun hello. what else did did you hear from jurors anderson? i was really interested to hear what they had to say about a possible sentencing hunter biden because the upper range for conviction on these offenses is potentially decades in prison, hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. so it s widely expected. hunter biden and wouldn t get anything anywhere near that. this is of course, a first-time offender, but juror number ten told us he doesn t think that hunter biden should get any prison time. another juror said that hunter needs rehab more than he needs imprisonment or a fine. and while the jury is weighing in on sentencing it is ultimately actually up to the judge should determine the sentence. and we expect, while there is no sentencing date, now we expect it will be roughly 120 days after this verdict, which would fall in late october so that s before election day. but likely after his next federal criminal trial, which is scheduled for early september out in los angeles i ll read them so much, paula, let s go next to the white house. i ve seen kayla tausche with more and how the president and the first family are dealing with this moment what s the reaction been from the white house for president biden anderson, president biden is approaching the situation first and foremost as a father in the statement released today, president biden saying, i am the president, but i m also a dad, jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loved ones battle addiction, understand the feeling of pride, seeing someone you love come out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery, the family greeted each other on the tarmac in delaware this evening, hunter biden, embracing members of white house staff and members of the security detail before the family then retreated to a nearby family home or they re going to be processing together what happens in the next chapter president biden has said that he will accept the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal and the biden reelection campaign is telling allies that for them, it s going to be business as usual. the president gave a speech at a previously scheduled gun safety event after the verdict, which obviously is somewhat ironic, what did what did he say there well, it was a fairly awkward conflict fluence of events today. president biden finding out about that verdict just before this preplanned event, where he was in this situation of a heralding a crackdown in gun violence i expect it to tout we knew that president biden was expected did two announce more than 500 new charges brought by the department of justice on gun crimes in the wake of his new bipartisan gun law that was passed and signed into law. in 2022. instead, the president took a broader approach. instead praising the new tools that prosecutors were given by that law, anderson per kilo joshua. thanks, joining us now to people who ve worked with and no prison biden wells and political commentators david axelrod and kate betting field, also with us retard federal judge johnny jones, the third and former federal prosecutor, jessica raw, third, judge. let me start with you. does the vert verdict surprise you d all know the verhaeghe didn t surprise me at all, anderson, i think the evidence was overwhelming and what i thought was notable and picking up one on your lead, which i thought was spot on in both of these cases, you had judges want to state judge and the other a federal judge saying, among other things, you must follow the law 224 americans in these two cases, you must follow the law, whether you agree with it or not, and you re not to be concerned about the sentence that i may give if the defendant is convicted, clearly, it validates our system of justice because they did exactly that. jessica, how about you? i mean, any surprise and what kind of grounds for appeal may there be? yeah. so i was not surprised by the verdict as the judge, the evidence really did seem to be overwhelming and the charges were pretty straightforward in terms of what the jury was being asked to find. but i think the k is also highlights the limited role that we give to juries in our system. now are there astro apply the law as they re instructed about the law to the facts and not to render an opinion in the courtroom about whether they think this was a wise prosecution or what they think is inappropriate punishment. i mean, they re really quite limited. it s not clear to me that there are strong grounds for appeal. i mean, there is a second amendment issue on whether or not the law that makes it a crime to possess a gun. if you are addicted to drugs, whether that survives a second i ve ever been challenged under the supreme court s current jurisprudence on that, but that would really only go to one of the three charges so it could be that there are some issues with respect to the evidence that was admitted, but that would be subject to harm plus error review maybe there s an appellate issue about whether or not he was entitled to essentially the benefit of the plea agreement that he had reached with the special counsel that previously fell apart, but i don t see those as being particularly strong in david. i mean, your sense of the verdict the impact it would have on the biden family and the white house. and i obviously on the campaign trail in the days ahead of any well yeah. look, i think that s the important question. anderson. a couple of weeks ago and trump was convicted, i said that i thought that the really important question was not how it would affect voters directly, but how it would affect him in his behavior. and we ve seen his behavior become even more pointed and angry since that conviction. here this is such a devastating experience for the biden family to have gone through this week to have their families go through this people get into trouble, they go, but not under the glare of the spotlight, like this. and to have your dearest relatives on the stand and have to go through this has to be devastating to the present. kate would know this even more intimately than me, but i know how much this must hurt him and there must be some feeling of guilt because he s the reason there s a spotlight on the family and why they re travails are so much in the news, so the question is, how does it affect him? he s got a debate in two weeks. he s dealing with multiple world issues right now and all the rigors of a campaign and how will he deal with it? i think is a big question. yeah. kate, we mentioned that the president promptly went to delaware to be with his son. and again, the contrast between other trump family approached the manhattan trial and how the biden family approach. this trial is stark. how do you think this is going to impact the president well, look, it is absolutely hard on him. he is a family man that you really cannot underestimate are under appreciate how close the biden family is, how much they lean on each other i think it would be hard for any father to go through, not only the experience of this trial, of course, but obviously all that hunter is dealt with and dealing with addiction and things have happened when he was in the grip of addiction. so yes, of course it is personally hard for the president, but i would also note he s somebody who has shouldered a lot of personal tragedy and difficulty while also juggling being in public office, he lost his son, beau to brain cancer when he was vice president. obviously his as you mentioned at the top has his first wife and baby daughter were killed in a car crash just weeks after he was elected to the senate. so he has spent his entire life in public service shouldering challenges, difficulty holding his family close, but simultaneously executing the duties of the office and being able to put to put his work first two. so i think his resilience, i think will really be the on display for people over the next few months. i think you saw a little bit today, frankly, when he was speaking at the gun safety event, he was lively. he was engaged, he was clearly talking with a lot of passion about the work he s done on gun safety and talking to the crowd. so i think i think the american people are going to see a lot of resilience for him. but of course this is hard for him. it s hard for him hi, are biden family, judge jones, what would you consider for a sentence on for these convictions? and also with the idea in mind that he is facing a tax charge as well that s potentially more worrisome for well, of course, the judge has to follow what are called the sentencing guidelines, which has my colleague knows are numbingly complicated, but the sentence needs to be sufficient, but not greater than necessary to fulfill the purposes of sentencing i think in this case because he didn t brandished the gun, he didn t commit a crime of violence was on another crime associated with to purchase it out. very frankly, anderson, over almost 20 years in the federal bench, i never had a stand alone case like this. this is really this actual charges and not something that s been brought tapped on. and this is the kind of zebra okay his, if you will. but i think in this case, there s a good argument for probation or it out with some kind of help remedial help counseling addiction treatment, and so forth. the real real peril comes with the tax charges because this counts as a conviction which it has the will in fact, enhance any sentence that he gets if he s convicted at the tax charges. so there s that s mandatory. that whatever the charges and this impacts that trump gets certain points for prior convictions and then of course that case is driven in part by the mount of the tax fraud as well, which escalates the sentencing exposure. that s where he really is in jeopardy of going to prison. i don t think this case so much. david, what do you say to republicans who were insisting tonight, the justice system as being weaponized against the foreign president, even though president biden s own son was just convicted in federal court and you ve got them menendez case and another congressman yeah, this is really complicated for them for that reason. and remember, yeah, you ve got senator menendez on trial, right now? congressman cuellar awaiting trial right now. it just puts the lie to the idea that there s this weaponized justice department of justice department has nothing to do with the manhattan da s office, but it s also a complicated for them because they have become so zealot zealous about the second amendment that they don t quite know how to talk about. this. so they re all shifting. and the thing that they re doing anderson is this whole, the mantra and they all move as one. is this biden crime family thing because really what s at play here is they re strategy is to try and say everybody is corrupt, that everybody is swimming in the same murky waters that donald trump is no different than joe biden. and that voters should discount the fact that donald trump is a convicted felon and has some other major cases pending against him. so i think you re going to see a lot of that. what congressman comer said today, chairman comer was really disgraceful as you pointed out he has been rolling out this cannon periodically. he lights the fuse and every time a flag comes out that says pop and there s nothing there. and so if they ve got evidence of a crime, maybe they should share it with people instead of just talking about it. and i think they don t because they don t in cape person biden and the foreign president and obviously have their first debate on cnn june 27th are you concerned about trump getting under the president s skin by invoking hunter biden. he obviously try to, when they debated in 2020 he tried in 2020 and it really backfired on him. i mean, i can tell you that the data that we saw on the biden campaign after that first debate where no trump really wound up and tried to come at hunter, was that what people remembered from that debate was joe biden defending his son, talking about his love for his son relating to people all across the country who ve had dealt with family members and friends who ve suffered from addiction. so it was actually a very relatable moment that really connected the joe biden as people across the country. so i think 44 joe biden, he should certainly expect that donald trump is going to come at him with this on the stage. we know that trump s going to try to throw everything he can it biden to get under his skin. but we ve also seen that this is a failing political argument. trump has tried to make it stick for five years. it hasn t and it ultimately winds up being an opportunity for people to see joe biden s humanity. and that s very moving and power david axelrod. thank you, judge jones. jessica roth, as welcome. have next former first daughter, patty davis, her own struggle with addiction and her thoughts about the verdict, and later cnn s clarissa ward is exclusive look inside a syrian detention camp are women and children are being held and the fears the mothers or maybe raising the next generation of isis fighters it s hard besides from real quality that starts in our factory to real performance in your backyard still tools or is tough and dependable as the people who use them this fathers de, give him the gift that 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wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? preferred better science, better results. juneteenth celebrating freedom and legacy wednesday, june 19 at ten on cnn hunter biden s conviction resonates on a human level in part because addiction of one form or another as part of the human condition, as are all kinds of things that sons and daughters do while struggling through addiction and the pain, all of it inflicts on families. being in the public eye are being the child of public figures. add still more complications my next gas patty davis knows this well. she is. of course the daughter of former president reagan and nancy reagan and a new york times op-ed, she writes this about the biden case. it might sound naive and the escaping le, partisan times, but it would be nice if the rest of us or even most of us but look at how sad this story is. how a man with a loving supportive family and every advantage and opportunity still fell into the roiling abyss of drug addiction and couldn t stop swimming around in this dark waters petty davis writes about her own experiences in dear mom and dad, a letter about family memory and the america we want to know thank you so much for being with us. you re just as it was so lovely and to your point in the op-ed, i mean, do you think basic humanity and empathy are possible in this hyper-partisan moment, the country is in well, i mean, on some days i think it s not possible some days i think it s extinct, but i think we have to keep looking for that and we have to keep reaching for it and i think even some of the comments from jurors expressed sympathy and compassion for hunter because this is at its root. this is not this story about a hunter biden is not a political story. i don t even think really at its right. it s a crime story even though he was convicted of some crimes but i think at its root it is a very sad story about addiction and a disastrous choices that addicts make and the ripple effects of those choices in families, lives and over time, i mean, obviously this is yes, it doesn t here s the thing about about an attic. when you, when you re addicted, your world is very insular. everything is about you and the substance that you re addicted two, that s that s kind of it, right and once you if you are fortunate enough to let go of that addiction and to stop using whatever substance it is, whether it s drugs or alcohol, you don t immediately change your mode of thinking. you don t immediately like break get out of that, that takes a lot of work and a lot of time and i am assuming that hunter biden is going through that. now. he starting to realize the extent that his addiction had on everybody else. i think it was very poignant for him. probably seeing his daughter testify in court, which has a really difficult thing to do you were candid about your own struggles with addiction in your teens and early 20s. the piece you wrote for the time, as you said, as the daughter of first governor and then no president, i do know what it s like to live under a glaring unforgiving spotlight than never dims the choices you make in your life. the mistakes, the stumbles are preserved forever and sometimes tossed out in front of you like a minefield, you have to keep crossing it s i mean, first of all, you re really a lovely writer. what kind of scrutiny to you in terms of what did that scrutiny due to you in terms of drug use, what was it like living under that kind of scrutiny? well my drug use wasn t made public. i mean, i have made a public because i ve talked about it since, but i basically i didn t get caught you know, i mean, i wrote about in his book how and my father was governor. i used to i used to drive at those so bored at site in sacramento on this summer s, i used to drive up to folsom prison because they hadn t gift shop how i found out that it keeps other calls from prison. i have no idea. it s not like a 70s. not like i go to google them, but i did and i used to like smoke a joint on the way going to force some prison completely stone, probably with other joints in my purse fortunately, they didn t search my purse, but a friend of mine when she read this story in my book said, well, were you worried that they would smell it on, you know, i never thought about that. so i never got clot. but, you the thing that follows me around, what is my activism in the 80s when my father was president in my sort of stridency and the anti-nuclear movement whenever i not whenever i read something about myself, but a lot of times, if i read something about myself, it s patty davis, the rebel daughter of president reagan, who protests protested his policies and everything. it was 40 years ago that is the reality of that political spotlight, which is the harshest spotlight imaginable and unfortunately, hunter biden is going to be followed by this for the rest of his days. it s just the way that s spotlight has a shelf life of like forever you know, especially now with cameron phones and laptops and social media and all of it, which obviously was involved in industry i mean, that was not around when you were right you were doing that? yeah. yeah. you referenced in your offset president biden ruling out a pardon for his son. you wrote i m quite sure it wasn t the answer. they re grieving. father wanted to give, but his sons actions and his sons illness forced him into a choice between the primal urge to protect a child and the public responsibility to uphold the law that is a terrible place to be. did you ever think when when your dad was present that did you ever worry about about it becoming known or as my drink? yeah. well, i owe well, as governor, i didn t think about it because i was, you know, just too strung out on drugs, i didn t think about it, frankly and by the time he was president, i had stopped doing drugs but i think like i was saying that that sort of self consumed mode of thinking, i think that was still very much my mode of thinking in the 80s when my father was elected president. and because if i ve been thinking more expansively, i think i would have expressed myself differently and not as stridently i think i d probably still would have spoken out about the anti-nuclear in the anti-nuclear movement because i believed in it very strongly but i would have done it differently but i didn t i you know what i mean? it was still that well, i m going to do what i want to do. yeah mentality patti davis. thank you so much for your time thank you. i mean, by cnn exclusive are rare inside look at detention facilities and syria housing. not only captured isis fighters wear their wives and children, one of whom tells her clarissa ward, we don t even know what we ve done morehead we ve never spoken. but you ve told us many things that you love stargazing, hate parallel parking, and occasionally, your right foot but it gets a little heavy. the lexus es didn t begin in the studio. it began with you in two seconds. eric will realize space gotta sell the house open houses, bars, skip the hassles and sell directly to open door when life stores open, we ll handle the house go whole world is about to burn your team. they are decent people but you would meet we all belong with decent this is your last shot at homeland with fast some people would rather crash slow down at his club this is my family is this war mark waiters, would your daughter only beaters june 21. how long have you been tracking the value of our car? should we sell it? we hold our low mileage is paying off. you think we should already sold the carbonic, go to carvajal, contract your car s value today what if we don t get down at time to get a birthday gift for zoe, don t panic with etsy. we can find the perfect gift and center a 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pet. if your dog suffers from fear of thunder, fireworks separation, or any other anxieties, thunder shirt can help. thunder shirts find it. retailers like pet smart and petco this breaking news and i two sources tell cnn that federal agents have arrested eight nationals from tajikistan inside the united states over there, suspected ties to isis. they d been surveilled from more than a month officials decided to finally arrest them before are possible plot could develop the arrest comes the us also tries to figure out what to do with the tens of thousands of children of suspected isis fighters coming of age in detention facilities controlled by allies in syria, or teenage boys are separated from their mothers it s produced fears that these facilities could be raising the next generation of isis fighters. cnn s course a war. it was granted extraordinary access inside those camps. here s her in-depth report cell phone videos of isis is brutal justice that the world hoped it would never see again. she mount mazama shared for the first time with cnn these images weren t captured in rocco or mosley in 2016 they were taken in 2022 in the alice hello camp in northern syria the sprawling dumping ground for the women and children captured after isis was defeated five years after the fall of the caliphate, isis is ideology lives on here security officials warn it is a ticking time bomb ungovernable and hostile to the outside world. you can see just how fast this places more than 40,000 people are living here in the most dangerous part of the camp is called the annex. that s where some 6,000 foreign nationals are currently within we were granted exceptionally rare access to the annex by the us back syrian democratic forces, sdf, who control for all the camp the women here hail from more than 60 different countries. several raise their right index fingers for the cameras, sign of solidarity with these hello mic state. do you regret your decision to join isis or wash she complains that the conditions in the camp are awful there are people in the world who will say you went to join isis you deserve it you deserve it. what do you say to that? normally if enemies. yeah. women and children need for the majority of alcohols residents our kids who have ended up here through no fault of their own un has called it a blight on the conscience of humanity. it is effectively a prison camp. are women and children are arbitrarily and indefinitely detained a group stops us with a frantic plea one of their sons has been arrested trying to escape the camp. she s asking if she can get her son back, who s in a prison? he s got me for monday need that youth march. we wanted just send them out so the sdf wouldn t take him. she tells us once boys turn 12, here, they take them it is a troubling story we hear over and over again the sdf says, it is their policy to separate adolescent boys because they are being radicalized by their mothers so an sdf raid earlier this year netted this video of a training session for children inside the camp. the sdf claims young teenage boys are married off to repopulate the next generation of isis fighters they say may explain the roughly 60 births recorded here every month this is where for some of those boys end up after they are taken. the or cash rehabilitation center conditions here are much better than camps, but there are only 150 beds and they are all full shamil. chuck car grew up in cologne, germany until his parents took the family to the isis capital rocha, a shrapnel injury to his head has left shamil confused how old are you chem omega my without if you don t know shamil was living in our whole camp with his mother and siblings until a few years ago when security forces came into their tent in the middle of the night in colombia enough for a man came and pulled me up and type my hands behind my back. my mom was screaming. she said leave him alone. he tells us i didn t want to go with them. he pushed me saying put on your shoes, but i didn t hit me islam is from dagestan, russia and is one of the youngest boys here it s via mama so he s saying that he is just 12-years-old he has been here about three or four months, he was taken from his mother. he doesn t even know what his last name is human rights organizations have said this separations are on a pauling violation of international law but the sds top general muslim abdi defends the policy. no drug. instead of these organizations condemning what we re doing in court pulling into human rights violation, these organizations should give us help when it comes to our program that we have in place for years now to rehabilitate these children. but part of the problem seems to be that once these young boys turn 18, there s not anywhere for them to go, particularly if they can t return to their home countries and so some of them i believe are ending up in prison necessity taken when he says that this is not a policy that we are following to put them in prison at 18 the reality is the goal is to reintegrate them with society but cnn has found that boys as young as 14 had been held here at the notorious panorama prison with an estimated 4,000 inmates. it is the largest concentration of isis fighters in the world. no journalist has been allowed inside panoramas since 20 2021 until now so the head of the prison has asked me to put on a head scarf while we walk through here because these are some of the most radicalized prisoners they have a senior us official told us the number one concern at panorama is the prison break. the fear that was realized in 2022 when hundreds of inmates managed to escape and i look inside 25 men sit cross-legged in silence cell is spotless. the men we see appear to be in indecent physical condition but tuberculosis is rampant in the prison and we are only allowed to look in side2 cells that you versus your, where he found a british man approaches the great but does not want to show his face i know advocacy groups called the us funding did panorama illegal black hole worse than guantanamo bay in an interrogation room? we meet 19-year-old stephane uj or lou from suriname. he tells us he was brought to the prison when he was 14, along with more than 100 other miners have you had a lawyer ever you talk to a lawyer i don t know about the big guys. you speak a about the kids assume feeling know the truth. you don t know even why we re always like punished as like five years in prison and replenished we don t even know what we ve been imprisoned because of our times at the sdf intelligence headquarters. we meet british pakistani dr. mohammed socket accused of joining isis. he claims he was the victim of an ally elaborate kidnapping plot. it says panoramas. inmates are abused so we live in torture. i live in fear we say you live in torch sure. do you mean that you are actually physically being tortured? this happens on and off what kind of torture, like beating by the stick by the gods? to. be honest, i m just waiting for my death. there s no getting out of this business. probably never the warden at and a rama called soc claim of abuse false, saying, quote, all parts of the prison are monitored by cameras and no prison guard can act in this way. the sdf and the us are pushing countries to repatriate their citizens from syria, saying it is the only solution to this complex and dangerous situation. but the process has been slow and many including western allies are dragging their feet in the owl rose camp, we may, brits, canadians, belgians australians, and a couple of americans survive. basically 30-year-old hoda methanol has been stuck. here are 7-year-old son for more than five years. i have to ask you, i m seeing all of the women here are fully covered. a lot of them covering their faces you re not covered, you re wearing a t-shirt is that hard it was hard when i first took it. i would say for the first 23 years people were not accepting of it, and they harassed us a lot. they stole our stuff in i had to stay strong and show example for my son born and raised in the the us, hoda became radicalized online at the age of 20, left her family in alabama to live under isis a decision she quickly regretted if you were to be able to go back to the us and you had to go on trial, potentially serve time prison. have you reconciled yourself without possibility i always tell myself that i m going to prison would be a step forward in my life if i had any time to serve, i d server and not come out and begin my life with my son for now. that is not an option. while the us advocates repatriation, it ruled hold is us citizenship invalid on a technicality, i didn t write now, she lives in fear for her son s future what do you miss most about america i just want to breathe at moroccan era and be around people. i loved the people of america they re very open and they re very forgiving and they re very, they re people who gives second chances and i think if they were to sit down with me and listen to my story from the beginning, they would give me a second chance but second chances are hard to come by here. for most repentance is demanded. and forgiveness rarely given as the cost of ignoring this ugly crisis continues to mount of course, the word joins us now, i mean, it s extraordinary to think of all these people in this limbo. you said the us government and rule the citizenship of the american woman who spoke with invalid on technique kennedy. what else what else do you know better situation node and what viewers authorities commented at all? yes. so we ve reached out anderson to the state department about who does case and they said to us the department has not changed its position with regards to ms madonna s citizenship status as the state department determined in the courts agreed she is not and never was a us it is isn t. we also heard anderson from her lawyer who responded if hoda methanol is not a us citizen than she is stateless. and that is a violation of international law. the directly contradicts what the us government has stated. other countries cannot and should not do. and i should add anderson that a senior us official it told us there are about a dozen americans who are still in these camps in northeastern syria. the repatriation process is not straightforward though, because many of them, unlike hoda, don t actually want to go back. we spoke to one woman who asked not to be identified. she said that she has not put her hand up yet. she is a dual well, national and that she doesn t feel comfortable returning to the us because she s too afraid that she might have to face time in prison. anderson, clarissa ward. thank you. incredible report thank you. more. breaking news tonight. a bus hijacking in atlanta and the deadly discovery after the police chase through city streets in the interstate during tonight s rush hour. that in a first in nevada politics, voting isn t just being done behind curtains today now 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camps, and feeding their dogs dog food. that s actually well food developed with that, made from real meat portioned for your dog and delivered right to your door. it s smarter, healthier, pet food get 50% off your first box the farmers dot.com slash real food. i m katelyn polantz at the federal courthouse in washington. and this is cnn some more breaking news tonight to shootings in atlanta one at a downtown food cord this afternoon left 23 people wounded. and while please run that scene, they got word of shots fired on a transit bus just a few miles away, which turned to a bus hijacking than a police chase onto the interstate. finally, when that ended, police made a grim discovery. more now in all from cnn s ryan young begin around 43911, call about gunfire and a hostage situation on a bus when officers arrived to investigate the bus takes off and the chase begins from above, you can see the county bus swerving uncontrollably through rush hour traffic and atlanta dangerously moving in and out of traffic through city streets and onto the highway where elana police officers desperately tried to get the bus pulled over. our initial call was of a gunman on on the bus that was holding hostages and possibly there had been a discharge of a weapon that was the initial nine will one call that call disconnected and then a short time later we receive another 91. we ll call also from the bus and that line remained open for the entire time. officers tried blocking the bus in the attempt to use stop sticks, but the bus avoids early attempts to stop it. all of it through atlanta s rush hour traffic at one point, the bus almost hits this truck. it s worth around the car and then veers into traffic his driver s scramble to get out of the way. a gunman with a gun to the head of a bus driver saying, don t stop this bus or else worse will have this is the type of thing, obviously, no one is i mean, it seems like the movies later the bus narrowly misses another group of cars as it drives on the left side of the road before coming to a stop on this tree-lined road, there were 17 individuals on the bus and putting the bus driver unfortunately, as the mayor has stated, one individual has died of injuries which we believe to be a gunshot wounds. this is gonna be a joint investigation by the atlanta police department as well. was from the georgia bureau of investigation. we currently do have in custody a 39-year-old joseph career officers from several police departments surround the bus. you can see someone coming out with their hands up before he gets on the ground. police at the ready, guns drawn with a tactical armored vehicle on the scene police find one person shot and killed anderson. we re also finding out the man who was arrested as a convicted felon, but i want to tell you something we were doing a news conference about that earlier shooting and this start happening. i got a phone call from a source that was saying they could see several police cars chasing this car through the streets of atlanta there was very harrowing. in fact, they saw officers trying to use their car to block that bus, but such a large vehicle moving through the city it s amazing that no one else got seriously injured even know, sadly one person did lose their life on that bus today? yes, i m just terrifying ryan young. thank you. now, to exclusive new reporting voting from behind bars, unique development in the narrowly divided state of nevada, which could determine who wins the white house in which party controls the senate. or murray has more inside the largest jail in sin city. that s my first time voting for the first time that you ve ever voted in any election is when is here in the detention? yeah. natalie inmates escorted to this holding cell and then a voting booth. the first one ever set up in the clark county detention center in la las vegas. nor you suppress that there was going to be a voting booth here today yeah, i was surprised. yeah, i was i didn t expect that its debut just in time for primary de the result of a new law wiring improved ballot access for thousands of non felons detained in nevada s jails. soon after the booth opened, the first voter cast her ballot. how did it feel to be able to cast your your vote it felt nice, actually felt good for activists shigella chambers. you can put that on my epa ten it s a hard-fought victory there is a pressure for us to shine brightly on this first run. a felony conviction after a violent altercation during college costs, chambers his freedom and his voting rights for more than five years. i feel that someone who is doing this work needs to be formerly incarcerated to engage that population now he works for the non-profit silver state voices, running outreach to thousands of potential voters behind bars one of the first bullet points on here it says why you cannot vote, okay, that s a key. you cannot vote if you are serving a sentence on a felony conviction in a city or county jail, then it makes clear if you re pretrial for serving on a misdemeanor you re eligible jackpot. one of the biggest hurdles, convincing eligible incarcerated voters to cast a ballot amid polarization and misinformation patient more than 2,500 ballots were cast by individuals whose names and dates super match incarcerated felons. do you think that has an impact on even people who are eligible? it s about without question, without question it took months and the threat of lawsuits for jails to get up to speed. we had an election happened, but no jail fully. what s compliant? and what the law facilities across the state worked with voting rights groups like the aclu and election workers to finally ensure ballot access ahead of tuesday s primary their vote should not be any less important than the individuals that are out here. and unfortunately, they face those barriers that we were here on outside, don t even really you think about those barriers, the basics for those who are behind bars postage for change of address forms blue and black pens to fill in balance and at least in this jail, a polling booth, something that goes beyond what the law requires. this is something that is a first for us and i think we re going to probably do it better than anybody else. we ve tried to progress cells on that. there really was no model for us to follow. we ve had a couple of opportunities to make sure we get it right for the general election in november chambers hopes this is one step toward politicians actively campaigning for voters behind bars in clark county. you have potential victory is lying in those sales at least for now. i want to i guess is it makes a huge difference night, i step toward voters like elliot carver hall, having their voices heard it felt a little bit of empowerment, a little, just a little bit, a little tiny bit sara marie joins us now from las vegas. so this is the first time these voting booths had been used. how did the process go? it went pretty smoothly, although there were voters who showed up to vote and found out they were actually registered in a different county or in some cases, in a different state which is indication of the education gap that still exist for those who are behind bars. there were dozens of folks who wanted to vote from the jail today and we expect that that s cut number is going to be even larger when we get to the general election in november. this was sort of a dry run for the big event