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alluded to and you know far a better than we do, the tribal nature of afghanistan leads to success in those areas. why aren't we led to believe that this is a fool's errand, trying to inflict local governance, you own this land, that it can never be done given the history of afghanistan? anecdotally that's all i hear from people returning from afghanistan, marines returning from afghanistan, that we're involved in a fool's errand trying to do this? >> well, you could argue that any attempt to stabilize the country where osama bin laden launched the horrific attacks that took down the twin towers should not be called a fool's errand. will it succeed is a much more difficult question. it's surely not a fool's errand. >> david -- go ahead. excuse me. >> i just was going to say, joe, i know you've been a skeptic about this war and there are a