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>> but does that mean -- that's what the article points out, she's saying that women should act more like a man in the workplace? >> well, no. i don't think that's what she says. i think what she's saying is you need to be aware of that negative correlation between success and likability and figure out your own way to navigate it. you're interrupting me and that is very unattractive in a woman. >> lean in. so once you point out that fact, that people correlate likability and success and say, hey, you're penalizing this successful person because she's a woman, it dhangz dynamic. so by talking a...

Ruth is talking about, and then you have to have not only a supportive husband but a supportive family. >> one of the points that sheryl sandberg makes is that success correlates negatively with likability. the more successful you are, the less likeable you are. >> for a woman. >> for a woman, not for a man. there's no problem being a successful man, and that women just have to bite the bullet on that cultural reality. >> but does that mean -- that's what the article points out, she's saying that women should act more like a man in the workplace? >> well, no. i don't think that's what she says...

Scan equipment maker, and everybody involved. so this affects everybody. >> one of the things, neera, that i learned from steven brill and his piece at "time" magazine is the affordable care act, because of the focus on who pays, is going to leave unaddressed many of the issues that he's describing. can you respond to that issue? >> well, look, i think that there are solutions in the affordable care act and that they should be strengthened. one of the challenging is we don't have enough competition. there's not competitive bidding. one of the things is that people can charge exorbitant prices,...

Can you respond to that issue? >> well, look, i think that there are solutions in the affordable care act and that they should be strengthened. one of the challenging is we don't have enough competition. there's not competitive bidding. one of the things is that people can charge exorbitant prices, and there's no competition to get a lower price. it's something that this really amazing article points out, and i think that is -- there are a number of steps -- it doesn't matter who is paying for things and how they're paid for. some of the ideas around bundling and ensuring that we're paying for...

Making. so they like her. and you know, i know you mentioned some views from some -- i mean, epa's always going to be a lightning rod. they're involved in so many major rule makings, involved in the climate change effort. they're always to have their krit critics and gina mccarthy hear a lot of -- a lot of that. >> i don't want to enflame anything that's not there but you point out that veteran industry lobbyist points out that he has worked with her in the past and while they disagree with the final rules, they found her to be someone open and engagement and regulated community. you have john...