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Interventionism in world war ii. now, i'm not saying things have worked out in the past, so relax. what i'm saying is things have worked out in the past so let's get to work. >> there's hope in this book, i hope. >> well, there is because as winston churchhill once said you can count on americans to do the right thing after we have exhausted all other possibility. >> i can't wait to read more. john meacham's new book, "the soul of america." how is the white house responding to question about payments made to michael cohen. ducking and dodging. why we can't get a straight answer, that's next.

Next. he's an historian and also the authorf a new book, "the soul of america" the battle for our better angels. >> it's hard to even say it. >> it's such a profound and big book it's hard to even say it. i enjoy reading it. i started reading it last night and fell asleep to it. one of the quotes you use is james baldwin. and every moment he says is a living history. and this craziness and everything that's going on with russia and michael cohen, what's your take on that? >> my take is if stormy daniels' legal team with all respect comes up with this material lord knows what the former directo...

Accusing stormy daniels of charging the wrong michael cohen. i want to bring in walter schaub, a former director for ethics for the obama administration of president obama and president trump and also michael moore a former u.s. attorney, goof to have you both on. good evening. michael, attorneys for michael cohen firing back at michael avenotti, accusing him of releasing private bank records of a different man named michael cohen. so help us sort this out. does this take away from avenotti's credibility? >> i think it's always hard to come and try to litigate your case and put your evidence o...

Such as this under the auspices, the sanctions by the department of justice, all tow jim comey can you read his book said the legal basis was weak. >> yeah. >> and it was approved by the congress so now as gina i thought very astutely characterized it, our moral standard has since changed over what it was then. and i do worry, i'll just offer this as maybe gratuitous. i do worry some future administrations on future people in the congress are going to decide that killing people with drones is illegal and immoral and unethical. gina, i know her, i've worked with her, i think she would be a supe...