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Cap and balance. >> we are going guilt a vote on saturday. >> what do you see the numbers? >> it will take 60 to get to the magic number in the senate. i think the house demonstrated, this is what we can pass. we have an alternative that puts, i think, the president and the senate democrats in a position to answer with something. so far, the president hasn't put a plan out, the senate democrats haven't put a plan out. we don't have a budget in over 800 days. theyville to react to this and get on the record. they will get a chance to go on the record on saturday on cut, cap and balance. >> afte...

This is what we can pass. we have an alternative that puts, i think, the president and the senate democrats in a position to answer with something. so far, the president hasn't put a plan out, the senate democrats haven't put a plan out. we don't have a budget in over 800 days. theyville to react to this and get on the record. they will get a chance to go on the record on saturday on cut, cap and balance. >> after the cut, cap and balance vote, i assume this is not symbolic, beyond that when you get the gang of 6 proposal, unless the things we talked about, bringing spending cuts back, that's ...

Proposal think a couple of things about it. it freezes spending at 2011 levels which enshrines and locks in the huge spending increases of the last two years. >> greta: and you want to go back to 2008? >> the cap and balance goes back to 2006. we want to go back to before we were spending like drunken sailors here. it isn't clear which baseline you are using. we all agree it constitutes a tack increase. it is how big a tax increase. that is something we shouldn't be doing in the middle of an economic downturn. >> greta: the gang of six is sort of a proposal what we would like to do in general?...

You agree to the american people that it is not going to be a reality as much as you want it? >> i think it is a straightforward serious meaningful proposal to deal with the spending and debt issue at the same time we raise the debt limit and i think we have got to address the debt if we are going to raise the debt limit. there isn't another plan out there that does that. if it doesn't pass, then what is the next step? i'm not sure i know the answer to that at this point. but it has got to include some meaningful reductions in spending or it is going to be very, very hard, i think, to get any ...