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2012, 2011 and '12 was when donald was trying with a group of oligarchs to do a failed trump tower deal on the caspian sea and subsequently the kazakh government was looted of about $10 billion. and one of the questions was some of that money funneled one way or another through the trump organization. the tax returns may or may not tell you something about that. tax returns are the beginning point for investigating where things are. they're not the end point. >> i don't want to get too far ahead, but it's worth pointing out that, you know, the famous department of justice policy that says a si...

Normal business perspective, but will make a lot of sense if you were helping someone illicitly move money around. 2012, '11 and '12 is when donald was trying with a group of oligarchs to do a failed trump tower deal on the caspian sea. and subsequently, the kazak government was looted of more than $10 billion, and the question has always been was some of that money funneled in one way or another through the trump organization? the tax returns may or may not tell you something about that. tax returns are the beginning point for investigating where things are. they're not the end point. >> i do...

Salt, there are a lot of assumptions built into it, but he's talking again in testimony with adam schiff and schiff says is it your testimony that whatever discussions second low had with pardons was done with the knowledge and authority of the president? and michael cohen says i believe so and this is all part of this discussion about how michael cohen is saying these were conversations that were done with the president included, according to michael cohen's version of events, that were done essentially to shut down the investigation, you know, he wanted the president, the president's lawyers...

Essentially don't cooperate, you'll get this pardon, there's nothing to worry about for you here. that's not how these things worked out, don, but again, michael cohen, grain of salt. >> everyone keeps saying grain of salt but again, as elie said this is a starting point and if jay sekulow knew the testimony was false, this is just the beginning point, where does the congress or anyone, investigators, go from here? >> i mean, look, if they figure that out, they can corroborate that, pointed out, that's bad. it brings it a lot closer to trump. but how are you going to corroborate it? i don't kn...

Bring those numbers up. and i think the big question has always been what joe biden enters the race, if he does, is the 30% mark going to be the beginning point for him or is that going to be sort of the roof, right? and when he is looking at the field, as arlet was saying, there are these other candidates who are getting a strong start, whether it is through the fundraising like beto o'rourke, like bernie sanders, whether it is like releasing very comprehensive policy platforms, biden is sitting this one out for now. and i think he has to be watching the rest of the field very, very closely. ...