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Their work, despite all of the attacks on the justice department, on prosecutors, on the judges, on jurors themselves at times. these prosecutors quietly were working with laypeople in florida, trying to figure out how to get to the bottom of what happened here. it really has been a stress test for the better part of the last seven years as the trump, while president, and now as the ex president, has to try to take on the government single-handedly, and has tried to attack this entire process. and yet the special counsel went on with his work quietly, and appears to have gotten the job done, a...

Corcoran, he's been trying to save himself, making voice notes, who was four hours with the grand jury. who was part of why a judge said that they were making plans to commit crimes together, and that the crime fraud exception, donna front he starts with a lot of this case, what we would call legally proven. he is also legally presumed innocent, but he is starting out really behind. >> and just for the layman, he has one less lawyer. he lost him on may 16th. he was on my show last night when thing he said was that he didn't see how donald trump could possibly testify in his own defense in this...

Claire mccaskill. dan and clare, thank, you claire, what's your reaction to all of this? what are you stealing -- >> first of all, i don't think it's a night for celebration for the country. i think it's time to pause and really take in what's just occurred, and what will be occurring over the coming months. i've got two hats here, somebody who read for office and understands politics, in a granular way. and somebody who spent a lot of time in a courtroom as a prosecutor. there are a couple of things that stand out to me. number one, the decision to go to florida is one that lawyers are lookin...

A difficult road for trump. >> brandon, can i ask, in terms of the judge, i've read some reporting that it's possible that the trump team might request this case be transferred to a favorable judge. i think that a lot of people remember the start of this investigation, judge aileen cannon. what is the likelihood of that? >> strategically, it would be possible, ultimately sort of based on local practice. ultimately, exactly as joyce said, ultimately their reality is that you're going to have what appears to be -- the fact that they're even bringing this case in florida, you have another career ...

News can report and confirm, talk to us a little bit about the gravity. we're talking about potential obstruction of justice, and conspiracy to make, or conspiracy to make false statements. >> everything changes now. this is a very serious federal case. what started when donald trump went down that escalator, with all of his very public and brazen promises, overthrowing all tradition standards, rules, laws, and norms, to attack the fbi, law enforcement, but culminated in a way on january 6th, which is still under jackson's investigation, now today everything changes. the likelihood that donald...