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. steve: shady pay to play donations part of politics for generations, a part of the swamp most people think never will be drained. can a conservative with concerns with campaign finance reform really work? joining me is john putnam. great to see you. we've talked about this many times before. explain to our audience what you think needs to be done to tackle this problem of the big money donors corrupting politics? >> campaign finance can be positive. we want to bring the reagan era tax credits where average person can keep the first 100 bucks they were going to give to the irs and instead pic...

Donald trump off the hook here. i mean, the reason people are leaking in this administration is that president trump has lost the trust of his government across the board. this is not so simple as bring in the mooch, scaramucci, fire a bunch of people and all of a sudden people are not going to leak to the press. he's lost the trust of the government across the board given the style and chaotic nature of the first six months in office, and it's going to be much, much, much more difficult without a dramatic overhaul of management style to turn things. steve: i agree to an extent. it's about the...

I'll be interested to see whether president trump can deliver on the promise he talked so much on the campaign trail. steve: very specific example of fulfilling the drain the swamp agenda if he does clamp down on this. >> for sure, this is a great example why big government is such a problem. there are so many problems, spending so much of our taxpayer dollars, it's impossible. this is a complex issue, hard for americans to understand. in your segment. people had no idea what it was, and people want their elected officials to, to hold this money to account, and want to feel like their best int...

>> i think you're letting donald trump off the hook here. i mean, the reason people are leaking in this administration is that president trump has lost the trust of his government across the board. this is not so simple as bring in the mooch, scaramucci, fire a bunch of people and all of a sudden people are not going to leak to the press. he's lost the trust of the government across the board given the style and chaotic nature of the first six months in office, and it's going to be much, much, much more difficult without a dramatic overhaul of management style to turn things. steve: i agree to...

Things change. i'll be interested to see whether president trump can deliver on the promise he talked so much on the campaign trail. steve: very specific example of fulfilling the drain the swamp agenda if he does clamp down on this. >> for sure, this is a great example why big government is such a problem. there are so many problems, spending so much of our taxpayer dollars, it's impossible. this is a complex issue, hard for americans to understand. in your segment. people had no idea what it was, and people want their elected officials to, to hold this money to account, and want to feel like...