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Care of people who take care of him, even if they are in the crosshairs, and that's certainly the situation for roger stone potentially. i mean he's speculated that he could be indicted, and you have people who have been indicted who are probably looking at that. and there has been open speculation among people close to paul manafort, for instance, that he could be in for a pardon as long as he held strong. you see the pressure on him to flip. you see his longtime deputy rick gates flipping. you have to wonder. manafort is racking up these huge legal bills, if this isn't part of his thinking t...

This unfold on tv today? >> i mean certainly the message is being received, and we don't even have to speculate because roger stone actually gave an interview to, i think, sam stein, who was on your last segment, saying that the way he interpreted the pardon is that the president is going to take care of people who take care of him, even if they are in the crosshairs, and that's certainly the situation for roger stone potentially. i mean he's speculated that he could be indicted, and you have people who have been indicted who are probably looking at that. and there has been open speculation am...

I mean he's speculated that he could be indicted, and you have people who have been indicted who are probably looking at that. and there has been open speculation among people close to paul manafort, for instance, that he could be in for a pardon as long as he held strong. you see the pressure on him to flip. you see his longtime deputy rick gates flipping. you have to wonder. manafort is racking up these huge legal bills, if this isn't part of his thinking that if he doesn't flip, there could be some relief at the end. >> jonathan swan, ken vogel, gentlemen, thank you both very much for being...

Watching him, even his appearance is changing a bit. he's got to be under an unbelievable amount of stress. the big question is will he flip. the question i have for you is. can he flip enough to save himself at this point from going to jail? >> he's one of the few people that i believe can raise the flag and say i've got what you need. and i think that's going to happen. when he sees the federal sentencing guidelines, the criminal exposure he has, he goes back to his family and says you're not going to see me for decades, he's going to flip. and how does he save himself? he talks about the bi...

Fascinating. donald trump says he's innocent but then he says he won't flip. and then it's he's innocent, i'm not ruling out a pardon. of course these pardons at the end of the day probably won't mean a thing because you'll have eric schneiderman and the new york attorney general's office taking whatever the southern district of new york finds and whatever bob mueller finds and prosecuting them at the state level. >> that raid carried out by the southern district and the fbi on michael cohen a couple weeks ago, his office, his hotel room, his home clearly rattled the president of the united st...