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That was extremely unpopular with the base at the time. he became a beloved figure in this country. my father is a world war ii hero. i said to him yesterday, what do you think? he said, i don't think they should be doing that stuff. i said, let me ask you a question. what's less american, taking a knee as honorable dissent about all of the things you just listed or black balling footballers, in their prime? like colin kaepernick and eric reid. for the stance they took by taking a knee. >> let's actually show. because one of the reasons they're taking a knee is because of injustice. the irony ...

Where are they going to go if this happens? >> well, in 2012 when i was editor of "time" and jose vargas, who came out an as undocumented worker, they are americans, except for a small statute that says they're here in an undocumented way. they were raised here, they went to school here, they work here. these are people who have 700,000 people who have jobs that are necessary jobs. i mean, this -- what i would say to the president, let's not make the decision based on the politics let's try to do the right thing. that would be kind of an amazing thing and to allow them to become american citiz...

Why would you have to hold them so at bay? it would make sense if it was maybe george bush that the media didn't like. why does obama get to hold them at bay and not give them access? >> it's disturbing on a lot of levels. this was one of the things they campaigned on. they were going to do business and politics in d.c. in a far different way. they were going to be very transparent. there was going to be open access, they weren't going to be secretive and unfortunately, the facts and the time they've been there is not proved to be the case. we're seeing that now with the holding centers and th...