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Thank you for coming across the hall. >> thanks for having me. long walk. >> it is a long walk. it is an interesting kind of dichotomy, right? you have on the one hand people who say disclosure looks good and that they've gotten us to have this conversation about national security and the nsa's role in -- on the other hand, when you talk to people in your former world at the state department, the idea of somebody who was an insider just georging this kind of secret information really rankels a lot of americans. how do youen pack that? >> i think it's a spectrum, right? this isn't just all leak...

Thought two things, the president is going to ask him please come to the united states in 2015, and probably they thought the pope would be chiding the president about the hhs mandate. those two things probably accounted for maybe a minute of their 52 minutes together, but he did say why not? pope francis says a lot of things like that, picks up the phone and calls people. >> he's going to come to the united states, don't you think? >> yeah. >> great to have both of you here. thank you so much. we just learned that president obama is officially changing the rules for how the nsa collects the...

Snowden in this issue, it's been more of a political problem for the president in europe than it's been in the united states when you look at some of the polling and trust on this. as for congress, i'm very skeptical on this. the president was very clear, senior official made it very clear that by the way, he's still going to keep signing those orders every 90 days allowing the nsa to collect this bulk metadata, until congress passes a new rules on what the nsa can and can't do and how the phone company thing would work. i have to tell you, you and i both know, this is a bill there's going to ...

Is there any evidence to corroborate that, to validate making that kind of charge? >> i haven't seen any. >> do you think there's an effort on the part of some lawmakers to try to smear him publicly? >> i can't say that because mr. rogers is the republican chair of the house intelligence committee and yet a person i have great respect for. i think he's professional, a former fbi agent. i take what he says very seriously. i've not seen any evidence to suggest what he said. >> the future of spying in america is going to be something that congress is going to take up. how much authority should th...

Corroborate that, to validate making that kind of charge? >> i haven't seen any. >> do you think there's an effort on the part of some lawmakers to try to smear him publicly? >> i can't say that because mr. rogers is the republican chair of the house intelligence committee and yet a person i have great respect for. i think he's professional, a former fbi agent. i take what he says very seriously. i've not seen any evidence to suggest what he said. >> the future of spying in america is going to be something that congress is going to take up. how much authority should these intelligence agencies...