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Falling in 2026, and that's just the average. if you are lower and middle income expect to pay more. a 64-year-old making $26,500 would pay 1,7$1,700 for coverag under obamacare, and under the gop plan that plan would be $14,6 $14,600. what does this mean for the uninsured? >> 14 million fewer with insurance next year. what does that look like? 50 million americans were uninsured before obamacare, and with the new plan the uninsured would rise to 15 million, and it would be about 28 million would be aaussumption would be there. is the cbo gospel truth?

Than the cbo about how many people will be uninsured, so how can you attack the cbo number when your own number is worse? >> because what i am saying is that right now we are -- we truly are in a death spiral in the insurance market, and talk to employers, we saw a 25% increase next year and expecting 25% next year, and the point i am picking is these people that will lose their insurance if they move to the gop plan, no, people will lose their insurance because they can't afford obamacare. i heard this from them firsthand when i was on the campaign trail. when you are facing thousands of incr...

Another republican who ran the c cbo after you wrote, the cbo is indispensable, but it doesn't always get it right because it's forced by law to provide assumptions. fantasy in, fantasy out. is he right? >> well, we all know that certain pieces of legislation can't continue unchanged. for example, social security and medicare are going to run out of money in a decade or two. and cbo has to assume that the payments are going to continue. so there are sort of requirements that adhere to rules that the congress has set for it. not, it is made up by itself. so, you know, there is an element of tru...

Complexities that go into this. >> so you ran the cbo under a republican president and under a democrat. all of a sudden, it seems like the cbo is getting politicized. even before this number is dropped, you heard the white house and other republicans sort of bad mouthing it, saying they really don't have any legs to stand on in this. did you ever face that when you were heading -- >> oh, certainly. the clinton administration was not very happy with cbo's estimate of the clinton/health care bill, nor were the many other health care bills that were rivals to the clinton plan. their sponsors wer...

People. >> kinzinger, always a pleasure to have you on "new day." thank you. >> you bet. anytime. coming up, president trump's budget director, mick mulvaney is making the rounds to make the case for why the plan is a good plan and why the cbo testing and scoring should not be trusted. poppy? >> he says the cbo got it wrong. the white house, meantime, and several of the president's cabinet members take issue with the way that this was priced out, essentially. a number of them, what exactly goes into a cbo score? we're going to ask a guy who used to run the place how reliable these numbers ar...