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This and were they outplayed by jay sekulow and rudy giuliani? >> i'm struggling with the time constraint factor. i see it as artificial. and i think there's more to the story that we know. i'm not saying that somebody pressured mueller to close the thing, but i think he may have taken the weight of the world on and told his team we can't have america continue to suffer like this, we've got end this thing and we're not going to get much out of it because remember, we can't ultimately prosecute this president. i share jeremy's concern and i wish the subpoena had been issued. but understand, we'...

Much interest, as president, in overseeing steps that this government should be doing or could be doing to pry to prevent it in the future, not only from russia, but china and other countries, as well. >> i can yield you 15 seconds. >> it's much worse than that. he's inviting the help of russia again in the next election. we saw him with george stephanopoulos. he wants the help of foreign actors, again, in 2020. he's going to seek it. it's not that he's just not alarmed by what he heard today, he wants more. >> gentlemen, thank you. phil rucker, john heilemann, always a pleasure. back with mor...

Phil, you'll excuse me. it was congresswoman bass who kept calling him mccann today to the point of great frustration here in the studio. a very basic question for you, phil. in your judgment did it just get harder for the democrats to get mcgahn in front of that committee? >> well, that's a good question, brian. as you lay it out, that's the next step for democrats. and what they're trying to do here is build some momentum. they have the facts that are laid out in the report. they have the facts that mueller testified to. what they're missing is the political momentum to move towards impeachm...

It's probably also true only a tiny percentage of members of congress are looking forward to the kind of town hall meetings they're going to have back in their districts this time around. >> if they have them at all, brian. but look, i think john is right when he says that the momentum is stalled out here. in talking to some democrats tonight there's a feeling that this mueller testimony did not really move the needle and that there's a possibility of course that if mcgahn comes forward and they get through these court battles and democrats sort of build a consensus within that house caucus to...

Surrounding the optics. for example, would it be a closed testimony behind closed doors or would it be something that played out the way the mueller testimony did today as a nationally televised event? >> john heilemann, they could use the president's dvr to power a small city. there's every indication today his calendar was clear, he watched every moment of it and later critiqued network by network all of the post-game coverage. sean hannity came on the air tonight. i mentioned this earlier. graphic over his shoulder was "the day impeachment died." what's the chance he's right? >> you know i ...