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Enough. i think there is room to do more of that. the thing that's difficult for a small business is typically they don't in any way control the market that they function in. and so they can see how they react to gas prices going up. the difficulty is trying to figure out how their vendors and customers would react or how they would react to that because the gas prices, you know, obviously we think about in terms of car buying decisions and that sort of thing but the really huge impact on a broad base of small companies is that it effects consumer buying decisions. >> that's money in your pock...

Significantly in january. and then there's the lingering problem of high unemployment, not to mention state and local government budget and debt problems which may lead to massive layoffs. so, how are small businesses holding up? todd maceachen of the small business association, chad mutray of pinchfield consulting and analytics, the former chief economist for the small business administration's office of advocacy. alfred edmond is the multimedia he had or tore at large at black enterprise and cameron johnson is a entrepreneur and author. great to see all of you. todd, i want to ask you first,...

That they often use for investing on their own plant equipment and that kind of stuff and so they need their house to be able to be able to tap into that equity, et cetera, and that really is hurting their ability to get access to credit. i know that i'm working with a franchise association right thousand and one of the biggest challenges among franchises are credit and their ability to be able to grow their business and housing is a large part of that. >> we have just been saying problems with credit for so many years now that i look forward to the day, actually, we don't have that conversati...