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Payback for the ugly 2008 primary. i want to dig down on that. >> i think this is a really interesting point and i think it touches on the fact that if joe biden does formally get into the race and this week announces his candidacy, we are going to expect a very messy primary. the hillary clinton example is not going to greet this kindly. there is talk that this is -- he's challenging her on her character issues, that this is pay-back for the it 2008 primary by the obama world who never let go how she ran kind of a down in the trenches it kind of campaign. so that's the clinton folks are -- th...

The united states. this memo that one of our cnn contributors just received saying that the way to beat hillary clinton was to go after her top vulnerability, character issues. you've seen the memo. i don't know if you -- >> i don't recall putting ryan's name on it. >> it was confidential. >> look, i don't think anything in that memo should be surprising to anyone. you saw the strategy executed by the campaign and the contrasts that barack obama drew. i would point out those were different times, those were different issues. the iraq war this particular was very much in front and center in tha...

Have you read that memo going back for 2007/2008 how these obama staffers including her current polster thought she was so vulnerable on these character issues? >> no, but it seems like it will make for an awkward staff meeting the next time we sit down. >> did you know at all about this? >> no. this is the first i'm -- >> how does she deal with this issue that maybe her character, she's flawed, is -- you keep hearing this over and over again not just republicans, but some democrats making the case she's vulnerable on this issue. >> i think what you'll see tonight is that and what i think that...

She was most vulner able on her character issues. >> i think what you saw -- >> -- she'll be reinforcing that notion. >> i think we saw in 2008 president obama ran a good campaign and he's been an excellent president. but what you see in hillary clinton is someone who stays at it, who grinds it out. and the voters see that she will fight for them, there is no -- at the end of the debate, people will see that that is the woman on the stage who best understands my problems in my life. she has real solutions that will actually soft problems that are in their life and she is the person that will f...

Experiences and the only by a he claims over hillary clinton is by going after her. and he can't go after her on the issues. and he would have to go after her on character issues. and i'm not sure he wants to do that. he and hillary are good friends and i'm not sure he has the stomach for that type of campaign. >> michael, do you see an opening for joe biden with the democratic landscape as it is now? bernie sanders surging and hillary clinton -- >> i do absolutely see an opening. as to a whole lot of other democrats. and i absolutely agree with the governor that he can't do it unless he's 110...