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Reconciliation. others say give more time for bipartisanship, and that's where the white house is struggling a little bit to figure out how exactly to proceed. >> well, look, i was given the impression sahil that joe biden wants to get to yes. while it's not clear that there are ten senate republicans that want to get to yes, he definitely wants to get to yes, and the point is this, though, that he views it as a way to make sure he's got manchin and sinema on everything else. i mean, is this one of those things that there's a little bit of -- and i hate these metaphors, three dimensional chess...

Out to get the king. the king falls here, it will be his own doing. >> in terms of that chess metaphor, michael, who does this benefit? who does it benefit to have these questions out in the public sphere. i know you say you know robert mueller and worked on his team and worked with him closely and say robert mueller doesn't leak but maybe somebody on his team does? >> i don't think so. i think these are put out into the public domain in an effort to help the president form an opinion about what he wants to do with respect to mueller's probable request for an interview or a possible grand jury...

Behavior. anyone expecting public enmity between president trump and jeff sessions, if they were to happen, it would have happened all ready. he's known as a tough guy, likes firing people, actually hates face-to-face confrontations with people who he's close to. i wouldn't be shocked to hear him say really nice things about jeff sessions at the cabinet meeting and maybe turn around and say not so nice things in a different context. that's been the pattern with the president and a lot of people that are close to him. >> if this whole john kelly move to chief of staff, is this part of a larger ...

While we're playing yahtzee. by the way, earlier obama had used a chess metaphor when talking about these about the problem with putin. just let the chess thing go. the russians will kill you at chess. >> the history of that. >> i think we have a bigger issue with the chemical business that happened today. this is no surprise for anybody who has an imagination. terror is a full-time occupation. terrorists don't go home at 5:00 and play with their kids or do fantasy football or barbeque in the back yard. they think about this all the time. and they've had 15 years since 9/11. the next one going...

Dressing we put around it. >> part of ukraine, but under the russian influence, whatever the formula they can find. i actually think that can take pressure out of other parts of eastern ukraine to remain, to keep the territorial -- >> so what i'm hear from you, to use a chess metaphor, so you give up this pawn, basically. >> you really -- >> if you're the west now, you're saying you let them take the pawn which is crimea so you save the bishop which is the entire eastern -- >> john kerry should be negotiating that now. they should not be trying to save crimea because putin is not going to get ...