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Donald trump. >> if you take political advice from donald trump, you're going to be in worse shape than when you started out. i mean, there's no question about that. but, look, i don't think -- i don't think romney showed any move toward moderation in his remarks today. i listened to the whole thing, and, you know, it was the same old romney. it was the, you know, the usual sonorous cliches about america. i mean, one of the things that was striking about his remarks was that he, again, was sort of extolling america's military adventures abroad. the week of the anniversary of the iraq, you know...

State as he runs for virginia, number one. number two, i don't think that's -- that sentiment or that idea is reflective of the party as a whole. but there is a legitimate point to be made about, i think, underneath that argument is how these programs function. i have been paying into the system since i was 14 years old and got my first job. i don't expect to reap the benefit of all the dollars that i have put into the system -- >> which programs are you talking about you won't benefit from? >> the social security program, for example. i have been paying since my first job at age 14 years old....

Get the people to buy into these social programs so they'll become dependent people. that's the old romney line. >> and that to me is just a cynical view of the american spirit and it shouldn't have any -- >> bob, respond to this editorial in the national review. it's called amnesty pointless saying take away the spanish surname and latino voters look a great deal like many other democratic constituencies. low income households headed by single mothers and dependent upon some form of welfare are not looking for an excuse or action to join forces with paul ryan and poot toomey. in other words, ...

>> it must be deemed as a big deal by the president and the staff because the president mentioned it today. now, after losing the first debate, has president obama been doing an effective job of dismantling romney's contradictions? i mean, there's a lot of them out there, but he just -- i mean, that is his stump speech right now, who is the real mitt romney? >> yeah. and i think it's the right stump speech to have. and i think, you know, it also needs to say that, you know, there's this old romney who took these old positions, you know, pro-choice and so forth, as senator boxer mentioned in th...

Drill down on and say, so you're now saying that you're with this new romney and you denounce your own position on this, that or the other? that could be fatal. >> you're right. that's the stretch. away from the old romney to new romney is a stretch away from paul ryan's own record. >> i'm intrigued tonight by the moderator. she's a reporter. >> yeah. >> follow-up questions, will be interest to see if her instincts take over when something comes across she might know might not be exactly correct. >> this is msnbc's coverage of the 2012 vice presidential debate sent to get under way from centre...