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Here. >> you need a lawyer. >> i know. to talk about what the options are. some of the options, we have a full screen on this. one is use section 4 of the 14th amendment. ignore the debt ceiling and pay our bills. mint a $1 trillion coin. or get republicans on board. i think the last one is the hardest. talk to me about what the president's options are, michael. >> this would all make the founding fathers' wig hair stand on end. these are the kinds of issues that they were grappling with in trying to create a strong effective government that could pay its bills. those were the issues that were...

They can only last for ten days. the federal courts will close down. then, of course, we meet the number one disaster, and that is the pending debt ceiling calamity, which as secretary lew said, we're already using extraordinary measures. >> congresswoman, let me just before i let you go ask you this question. there was this suggestion about an alternative proposal with this discharge petition as another strategy to try to get something done. as i understand, that would take us to about october 17th. do you see that as a viable way to move forward if we can't -- if the clean cr vote just won't...

Paying for. and as a result, this has been a routine vote. it's happened more than 40 times since ronald reagan was president. never before has a party threatened to not pay our bills. except for 2011. >> well, with this republican party, never before has become the new normal. and they're doing it again. take a listen to speaker john boehner this morning on abc. >> we are not going to pass a clean debt limit increase. >> under no circumstances? >> i told the president, there's no way we're going to pass -- when the the votes are not in the house to pass a clean debt limit. and the president i...

For -- for that over time. there's nobody right now out there to take our place. but if the united states gets into a place where it's unclear if we can pay either legally or financially our debt, there's going to be serious consequences. >> that's a heavy load to have on the president's shoulders. >> the bottom line is there are no good options. congress has said this much in taxes you can raise. this much in spending you can do. this much in debt is allowed. he may have to choose which unconstitutional option to follow. i don't know why as a negotiation matter, if nothing else, the administr...

That's not about new spending. >> that's correct. it's as $16.7 trillion. the president is presently going to ask that it be raised to at least $17.6 trillion. the republicans are saying these are unsustainable. when you start to have interest rates according to the cbo's report last year that approached 20% in less than 20 years, the question is, the government is going to default. whether it'll default this year or in 20 years, i don't know. on this trajectory, it has to default because you can't with all the entitlement spending -- see, we didn't fix the entitlement spending before obama ca...