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He would be beholden potentially in some way if he was trying to do that. and it worked out. >> you write about an i.t. guy, chief information officer at liberty university. an evangelical college in virginia who did some side work for michael cohen during the election. he expects to be paid. walk us through that story and what tells us about michael cohen and his relationship with president trump. what this i.t. guy did who works for jerry falwell jr. at liberty university is try at michael cohen's request to rig some online surveys or polls, they're not scientific polls, but to write a compu...

Top leaders. let's discuss now with michael who broke the story for "the wall street journal." michael d'antonio is here as well. you know he's the author of "the truth about trump." happy to have both of you here, but i am sad to have you here because this story has been fascinating me all day. during the campaign you heard trump, he wasn't president trump. he was candidate trump saying the polls are rigged. now we find out cohen was trying to rig the polls in his favor. yes, they are rigged. >> in 2014 you mentioned the cnbc poll. michael cohen had this relationship with this i.t. guy and fo...

Let's discuss now with michael who broke the story for "the wall street journal." michael d'antonio is here as well. you know he's the author of "the truth about trump." happy to have both of you here, but i am sad to have you here because this story has been fascinating me all day. during the campaign you heard trump, he wasn't president trump. he was candidate trump saying the polls are rigged. now we find out cohen was trying to rig the polls in his favor. yes, they are rigged. >> in 2014 you mentioned the cnbc poll. michael cohen had this relationship with this i.t. guy and for several yea...

And can you write a computer script to vote for him a ton of times and gogger tries but he doesn't make the second cut to the top 100. and as you've read, he complauns about it. >> he tries to rig other polls, right? a thing of trying to essentially conyour way into creating a grass roots love for donald trump. >> make it look like trump is more popular than he actually is. he later did well in the polls. but in this first poll in february 2015 he asks hum again just write this script and vote for him. he gets 24,000 votes. he comes in fifth place, loses that too. and so it didn't work. >> the...

Love the details. let's start with -- one of the things is they're planning this in 2014/2015 to try to lay the groundwork. what kind of stuff was he up to? >> he got this john gauger, who is a tech consultant who works at liberty university run by jerry fall well jr. and had been doing minor tech tasks for cohen for years. so cohen says hey, i want you to help the boss win this cnbc poll of the most influential business people. and can you write a computer script to vote for him a ton of times and gogger tries but he doesn't make the second cut to the top 100. and as you've read, he complauns...