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But first and foremost, i think this sends a very strong signal to anybody going before the special counsel. >> april, it does send a very strong signal, especially to paul manafort who is pleading not guilty. so far rick gates is expected to plead guilty, cop a plea, flip and cooperate with investigators. the pressure is on manafort to do the same. mueller's hope is if he does, others could be implicated. >> when you do a plea bargain, it's to get someone higher. and who is higher? the question is, what's manafort seeing when he sees this? what is he thinking? because this is now getting dair...

Are you going to plea and finally somebody on the flynn team said okay, we'll break. >> because we also learned today that the grand jury testimony has delayed and that seems to be an indication that maybe something -- >> that's right. i was couple wg the break between the legal team from flynn and the white house. i think the flynn team said this game's over. we got to cop a plea. >> the national security adviser for less than a month, but he was a key player during the campaign. including during the transition. >> not just a key player during the campaign, he was at the president's side non-...

Meeting? >> like, if it worked? >> if it worked, and what else were they saying. we have some e-mails between papadopoulos, but there were other discussions going on, and we may find out more about that because we think that papadopoulos might have been wearing a wire. >> yeah, and often, also, i will kick this to you, but just to take care of the low fruit here, there's no crime of collusion. it would be a criminal aspect of a conspiracy charge and we saw that with manafort and gates and not on the subject of the russian interference but on their own money laundering activities. the question ...

Different. >> you put your finger on a good point. these things have a way of going out of control. you start in one place, you know. initially they thought white water was going to last six months, it lasted six years. it went in all kinds of different collections. in watergate, they thought the burglars would be out, cop a plea, go to jail and that's the end of it. it took a different direction, especially when the senate, in the course of the sentencing, it was in the nixon white house. it could go in different directions. i'd like to go on record that the president would not testify under ...

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