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Your reaction to one of -- that being one of the arguments as to why the president was, you know, in his right to do this? >> well, you know, it doesn't look like -- the first piece of evidence, in a way the most serious piece of evidence, was the notes of the phone call he had with the president of ukraine. where he said, you know, the president is asking about the aid, and then president trump, he doesn't talk about corruption. he talks about the bidens. that's the investigation he wants. so at the same time he was doing that, the department of defense and the department of state had been as...

Senator ron johnson and i also shared my concern with the ukrainians. so much for the ukrainians didn't know. you can't have a quid pro quo unless the ukrainians know, and you've testified today, ambassador, the ukrainians knew. you further testified... "mr. giuliani emphasize that the president wanted a public statement from president zelensky committing ukraine to look into corruption issues. mr. giuliani specifically mentioned the 2016 election, including the dnc server and burisma as to topics of importance to the president. in reference to the july 10 meeting at the white house which you ...

The security aid with senator ron johnson and i also shared my concern with the ukrainians. so much for the ukrainians didn't know. you can't have a quid pro quo unless the ukrainians know. and you have testified today, ambassador, the ukrainians knew. you further testified, mr. giuliani emphasized that the president wanted a public statement from president zelensky committing ukraine to look into corruption issues. mr. giuliani specifically mentioned the 2016 election, including the dnc server and burisma as two topics of importance to the president. in reference to the july 10th meeting at t...

Persuasive? >> yes. >> of his intent? >> the question is going to be why. i think what we're going to start hearing more of is that the president was actually motivated by corruption issues in ukraine and that he believed rightly or wrongly that the biden situation was emblematic of past corruption and that he believed there was potentially issues of interference in the 2016 election. true or not true, i think the question is did he believe it or not because the framers thought about including maladministration in the impeachment provision. they decided not to do that. >> so what does that hav...

>> of his intent? >> the question is going to be why. i think what we're going to start hearing more of is that the president was actually motivated by corruption issues in ukraine and that he believed rightly or wrongly that the biden situation was emblematic of past corruption and that he believed there was potentially issues of interference in the 2016 election. true or not true, i think the question is did he believe it or not because the framers thought about including maladministration in the impeachment provision. they decided not to do that. >> so what does that have to do with holding...