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And the point mick mulvaney made is, yeah, there are trades all the time in washington. there are trades all the time involving foreign policy. we set conditions on foreign aid. the big question is not the this for that, it's the intent. if president trump was doing this exchange, this condition for the good of the american people, for the good of the government, well, that's one thing. that's not a crime. that's not impeachable. if on the other hand he was trying to advance his campaign or personal interest, that could be another matter. so i think that's where we're going to wind up. the pre...

Human rights. that's a condition. i haven't seen a clear-cut crime at this point. as jessica mentioned earlier if it's a bigger issue and they can say it's conduct unbecoming or shouldn't be doing it. that's a different issue. i haven't seen evidence of an actual crime as if one of us were charged with a crime. >> julie: originally the president maintained he withheld aid because of corruption. he wanted the corruption issues in ukraine to be cleared up before he gave that money. we're hearing from testimony that perhaps it was because biden was not under investigation by ukraine. but what do ...

Not involved with the press briefing. joined with me now, chris wallace. mulvaney tried to walk this back and saying "let me be clear, there was absolutely no quid pro quo between ukrainian military and new investigation into the 2016 election. the president never told me to withhold any money until the ukrainians did anything related to the server. the only reason we held the money is because of concern about lack of support from other nations and concerns over corruption." you have to love it when someone uses the taken out of context phrase, chris. in essence when he said is, i know i said ...

Statement that was released publicly that she made today and we'll find more about what she said behind closed doors. that was the key point i took away from the written statement which was that she was sounding the alarm. her vantage point which is on the inside which is different than what we are observing on the outside, she was seeing the levers of government, foreign diplomacy that's being conducted by the state department or individuals that are representing themselves as doing interests in diplomacy, national security decisions, corruption issues. she mentioned corruption issues are nat...

Campaign. a lawyer for the whistle-blower responded saying his client has never worked for or advised a political candidate, campaign or party. ukraine's foreign minister says his country does not want to be dragged into political battles in the u.s. tonight, we began a series of reports on what is happening in that former soviet satellite nation. correspondent david spun in the capital city and reports on the impact they are of now infamous phone call between president trump and ukraine's new leader. 4900 miles away from the white house, it is a busy day on the streets of ukraine. the country...