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Bending the rules and making money on the side? is it possible that they could cooperate and not understand what they're doing? all of those things are in the spectrum of what the russians could be interested in. so the fact that we have another person who is apparently either interested if having contacts or trying to arrange contacts with russia is concerning from a counterintelligence perspective, and another data point as you continue to assess data as to what are the connections between trump's team and russia. >> for you, what would be the important gaps that need to be filled? >> well, ...

350e up to people doing what's called an agent of influence. bend the president's ear and say we would like you to do this, that, or the other, being under the control of the russian government. it's a wide variety of different things that they might be looking for. but the fact that we continue to see and hear about more e-mails that come up from a counterintelligence perspective is concerning. it depends on whether or not it really rises to a legal issue or not. that's something that mueller and his team and i think others are looking at. simply from a counterintelligence analysis, it's conc...

Different. that would certainly are legal implications. but from a purely intelligence perspective, i've heard ambassador kislyak described as the dark lord, the spy master in washington. i don't think he was. he is an ambassador, he is the eyes and ears of vladimir putin, but i don't believe he's an intelligence officer. from a counterintelligence perspective, were the meetings with kislyak part of some clandestine operation, the goal of which was collusion? i think that's unlikely. it doesn't mean the meetings themselves were not important, but from the investigative part of it, i think it's...

Ambassador kislyak described as the dark lord, the spy master in washington. i don't think he was. he is an ambassador, he is the eyes and ears of vladimir putin, but i don't believe he's intelligence officer. from a counterintelligence perspective, were the meetings with kislyak part of some clandestine operation the goal of which was collusion, i think that's unlikely. it doesn't mean the meetings themselves were not important. but from the investigative part of it, i think it's much more important to focus on what were other people doing perhaps behind the scenes less publicly with somebody...

That would make his continuous investigation problematic. >> joining us now to talk about this is former double fbi agent and also author of "how to catch a russian spy." and military analyst and spokesperson for the counter speech project. what will they be asking jared? >> i think the big question here from mr. kushner's perspective is did he lie on his fa-86 on his background investigation? was there actually an intent to deceive and hide this meeting? that is sort of the crux of the question of legality. but katy, the bigger question here is, from the counterintelligence perspective, what ...