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Going on with ukraine. yep, we didn't like it. we wanted to push giuliani back. yep, we didn't understand why the president was doing this. where does that lead you as an investigator? >> on the counterintelligence side, one of the things you're worried about, is access and influence operations. so, it doesn't matter in essence, you know, the counterintelligence investigators are not going to be focused on what state department's reaction was to giuliani's activity. they are simply looking at what he did and who he was acting on behalf of. the fact that he was in there lobbying for -- in the c...

Which has surfaced in other areas. so this kind of goes to the heart of this collusion inquiry. was there some kind of quid pro quo where russia was giving help, targeted help in terms of, you know, social media or disinformation campaigns in exchange for some kind of policy change from the campaign? i mean that's what i see just on the surface. i suspect that rick gates is in a position to provide even more information, and this would really go to the counterintelligence side, which is why it's possible that he could be wrapping up the criminal part of the investigation and preparing that rep...

Areas. this goes to the heart of the collusion inquiry. was there some kind of quid pro quo where russia was giving help, targeted help in terms of social media, disinformation campaigns in exchange for some kind of policy change from the campaign? that's what i see on the surface. i suppose rick gates could give more information. this goes to the counter intelligence side. which is possible that he could be wrapping up the criminal part of the investigation and wrapping up the report but still trying to figure out what russia is up to and it does not end. >> asha, harry, thank you. harry, con...

If the purpose were transparency, the grand jury would meet in public. the trial jury would deliberate in public. all of the witness interviews would be done in public if the purpose transparency, the purpose is fairness. ultimately i hope the report is released. consistent with classification, don't want any classified information out there, don't want grand jury material but there's a third point too and comey did this in july. he held a press conference and laid out all the evidence he had on someone that he wasn't going to indict. if the department of justice does not speak through press c...

Counterintelligence aspect. >> joining me to talk further about this, retired fbi supervisory special agent, cnn analyst james galliano, and assistant director for congressional affairs formerly, greg broward. good to see you both. there has to be a lot there or a lot of red flags for the fbi to launch both a criminal probe and counterintelligence probe, right? >> that's fair, fred. let's make a distinction for the viewers here that there are two separate standards. in a criminal investigation, you're looking for information or allegations that lead you to collect evidence to lead to potential...