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>> joyce, let me ask you this question. and david has reporting that touches on this. if donald trump did know that people around him, potentially even his son, his children, were suborning crimes, isn't he liable for it? that's like saying, i know i won a million dollars and my son or daughter robs a bank to get me a million dollars. all i wanted was the million dollars. i didn't say to rob a bank but they did it to further my intent. wouldn't he still have liability there? >> danny did a great job laying out the problem prosecutors struggled so hard to explain to the american public. what it...

Was just the conduit to get him there. >> let me bring danny in. if, for instance, donald trump decides i want my trump tower. i'm going to run for president as a way to further my brand, as a way to build myself up, as a way to get close enough personally to vladimir putin to get my power. i will give him what he wants and then i won't win and i will get my tower. the people around him say, no, we want to win. we're going to take steps to win. if we have to trade campaign data, commit crimes, cocollud ce data, commit crimes, cocollud, e we'll do it. then he gets the thing they got for him -- ...

Illegal act like meddling in elections, as soon as people get connected closer and closer, the intent becomes easier to infer from the surrounding circumstances. so there is potential liability depending on what facts still remain. >> of course -- >> and joy -- >> go on. >> i just want to point out therein lies the problem. danny laid it out perfectly. what is the prosecutor's challenge? the problem is there is still not been made a public connection between what everybody around trump was doing with respect to the russian election meddling and trump's knowledge of that. we need to see and hea...