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Fraud, they're both charged with it. but it's for manafort's bank fraud charges that continued up and through last year. you referenced those loans. >> let's put that on the screen so that we can digest. here you have april 2016 to january 2017 when mana ford worked on the trump campaign and gates on the transition. >> there are a couple of things to me that are worth mentioning. this is turning the screws on manafort perhaps more than gates. because there's no additional money that's going to gaelt thatthat e that that's -- to gates that is manafort's money. i wouldn't rule out the possibilit...

Of it started before he even met donald trump on the came pain with greed. >> we know this started in 2006 and he sort of changed his business model, so to speak to apparently a criminal enterprise in a pretty substantial way and that grew. when we speak about this inde indebtedness do not relate to donald trump. he is clearly financially indebted himself to russian banks and his business, as eric trump bragged in 2014, that they get all their money and financing from russians. so i think that's why, which is not a legal theory of the case, it's why politically, and certainly in terms we think...

Election day. and russia unleashes an even larger set of hacks and information warfare, and what do we do about it? that's what happened before the may 14 french election. the media didn't report on it, it's part of that country's somewhat odd blackout rules. donald trump recently suggested america should copy france's approach to military parades. tonight some americans concerned about russian interference are concerned about whether we should copy france's approach to combat russian hacks. john mattis, who worked as a volunteer in california for bernie sanders campaign and was one of the fir...

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Criminal mind to getting away with it. >> over in russia. >> perhaps. i don't know how much he's indebted to them as much as he got a lot of money from them. but then what this indictment reveals is, and it says it a couple of times, when the ukrainian money started drying up, then he had to lever down on his homes. >> first it was greed, then it was desperation. i mean speak to that point point, maya, too much money, it ain't enough money. >> it wouldn't have happened and what conduct, right? >> this is a theory of the case, and daniel who has done this work and you're a lawyer yourself, this...