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National security agency, which unbeknown to everybody was running the program. tia is shut down publicly and they declared a great victory but the work continued in sec relate at the nsa and became part of a larger apparatus that we're learning more about now. >> or in other words, the beginning of prison, the data mining program we're just learning about. now in the uproar over prism and other nsa revelations, there is a tendency to focus on privacy concerns. is the government reading my facebook messages? nobody really has privacy. most of us handed overall of our information to google or s...

Weekend about the importance of backing moderate forces. >> yes. >> a moderate has won in iran. this is important. >> i think this is the wild card in this very complicated middle east puzzle. suddenly, we have in tehran, a key state, driving conflict in syria, a person who, as far as we can tell, has been repudiating the foreign policies of the current government, saying you need to do negotiations more, you're too distant from the west, you're relying on russia and china. it is absolutely fascinating that we are going to have a man who is associated with the reformist wing in iran in power a...

Something kind of input in any administration to fight this. one thing trust in government is inversely proportional to what the government is trying to do. >> paul: more it expands? >> the less people trust it. so one thing i think president obama has undermined trust something critical like nsa with things like hiring 19,000 irs agents toenforce the affordable care act. people look at that, well, i don't know if how this translates. >> paul: i'm more troubled by the irs scandal. irs can cease your wages, it can cease seize your wages or seize your property. it can do it very easily. this is ...

A government that has wide ear and wider powers. you are saying i don't trust them over here but i trust them over there. that is what makes people uncomfortable. i do think to dan's point about them releasing some information that would show people how important this program is, that is very important. last week google released a letter saying, look, we are asking fisa courts to let us put out there more specifically but not entirely what we're doing. that would comfort people. >> paul: i don't trust the government, you punish the abusers when they abuse their authority. calls from some quart...

His mother in kuwait. >> paul: you are saying the interrogation has been non-existent diminished? >> absolutely. we have the drone strikes, but as they said last month, he wants to reduce them and program scaled back. >> paul: also to use drones he has no know where the terrorists are. >> interrogation helps a lot. >> paul: what about traditional human intelligence spying, you have a double agent inside al-qaeda. do we do it well? >> this is much harder infiltrating kgb during the cold war. >> paul: because of the intensity of the group? >> exactly, it's decentralized nature. we had a double a...