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The spread of the virus? but if you're starting with, well, maybe the mask works, maybe it doesn't, i think the rest of what you have to say is moot because we have to start with a science base. we have to agree on the facts. >> are you finished, victor? do you want to hear the guests speak or just you give the talk? the answers are simple. excuse me -- >> go ahead. >> we live in a constitutional democracy. we do not have government by doctors meeting in conference rooms at cdc and issuing press releases. cdc is an adviser to the government. >> yes. i understand that. >> let me finish. it shou...

To the government allow them to make rules based on public health, based on public safety. >> absolutely not. >> -- massachusetts allows them to make these types of rules if necessary. >> -- decision victor, that has been discredited by modern constitutional law. no serious jurist at any appellate level relies on a 905 jacobson decision. you want to learn law before you start lecturing law professors. >> i've got your lawsuit in front of me. you say you ridicule the device of dividers. you don't want them to wear masks. you also ridicule social distancing. so then how do you stop the spread of...

>> i think there's many cases where especially with kids, the masks don't work because they're not being worn properly. there's arguments where people aren't wearing the correct type of mask. so i think that that is something that cannot be controlled in all of new jersey schools. >> bruce, i think we probably should stop the conversation right there. if we're having a conversation about whether masks work or not, i really believe the rest of this is futile because we know that the science shows that masks work. >> kelly, let me say this. victor, you brought up the subject so don't tell me you...