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There's a vivid illustration of the pain or there's widespread pain. something either cataclysmic or striking that gets a lot of news coverage or we get to the point where wide number of americans are affected and that's when the politics and political dynamic tends to really shift. >> we have the "new york times" peter baker with us. you've been through a lot of these shutdowns before, as have i. we've seen them, either been in the middle of one or reported on one. you've reported on all of these government shutdowns. they're usually about something. in '95 and '96, it was balancing the budge...

I don't know how you can be so dismissive with the things he said. >> i do think there'd be an outcry, and i do think rod rosenstein is still involved. whitaker is his boss but rosenstein is still involved. i think where whitaker becomes hugely important is when mueller issues his report, does he redact it, does he say this is not for the american public to view, this needs to remain private? and then you end up with a huge constitutional fight here on your hand, and i think the president would like it to be deep sixed and maybe whitaker would agree with him on that and that's a problem. >> da...

Shutting down the mueller investigation. i do think rod rosenstein is still involved. whitaker is his boss, but rosenstein is still involved. i think where whitaker becomes hugely important is when mueller issues his report, does he redact it, does he say this is not for the american public to view? this needs to remain private. and then you end up with a huge constitutional fight here on your hand, and i think the president would like it to be deep sixed. and maybe whitaker would agree with him on that, and that's a problem. >> david, just moves on to the president's tweets, why do you think ...

Stormy daniels and now we learned that a chunk of it involved karen mcdougal, the "playboy" playmate associated with donald trump and america media which bought her story and deep sixed it and never ran it and also there were other issues involved and shimon knows about this, that included his previous business. >> i guess one of the things that a lot of people watching this might think is it's not against the law necessarily to give people money to keep quiet about something. what would necessitate a raid like this? is there any informed speculation or information you have about that? >> the ...

Anybody who reads a lot of significance into proactive. maybe that means something to some prosecutors, but we do know how much of a deal that the government gave papadopoulos for his guilty plea, because he was initially charged with two counts: lying to the fbi which has a five-year maximum sentence, and destroying evidence. remember the court documents say after the second time the fbi talked to him, he got rid of his facebook account which had some of these encounters with the russian cutouts memorialized and deep-sixed his phone and got a new cell phone. so he has been charged with obstru...