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Very tough discussion for sure. and we got many example in all europe of tough discussion between trade and, you know, fast—moving goods company. i think that we always have been very reasonable in the last three orfour years in the relationship with the trade, knowing that there is the right limit and the right balance sheet for them, for us, and the right threshold where the two faces can start talking to each other. so i would say it's a very tough discussion, but probably thanks to our past years history and the credibility also that we got on the market, we have always been able at the ...

Written the book on this. it's called the invisible game the secrets and the science of winning minds and winning deals. kai—markus mueller, a real pleasure having you on this show. and kai, let's start with this. what are some of the tips and tricks that retailers use? well, there is a wealth of them in consumer psychology. but i'll tell you a few of them. a very, very, very strong component is, for example, the default effect. so, for example, if you have a subscription, it renews by default and we have trouble thinking about the renewal, wejust let it go. then there are things like red si...

What the ingredients are costing our suppliers and we have an agreed kind of profit margin for them on top of their raw material costs and their operating costs. so we know exactly what's going on there. and, you know, we don't have the same access to the profit structures of our branded suppliers, but we do challenge them as hard as we possibly can. ok, so let's start with the raw ingredients. take wheat, for example. before the pandemic, about four years ago, a bushel of wheat was trading on the market at $4.70. that spiked when russia invaded ukraine one year ago. the same amount of wheat w...

Years ago, for example. so, kona, i'mjust wondering, do do we as consumers who, let's be frank, have been used to pretty cheap food for some years, do we have to just now get used to these higher prices? i think the whole 2000 and early 2010s where we used to enjoy really good prices for pretty much everything, we enjoyed low inflation for the longest time. those days are gone. we're now going back to the 70s and eighties, not skyrocketing. inflation will come down, but we're not going to see the rock bottom prices that we saw back in the early 2010s. i think those days are gone. unfortunately...

Expensive food habits. well, on that point, kona lasker haque, my friend. a real pleasure having you on the show, as always, and, kona, i'll talk to you soon. thank you so much. so there you go, that's the start of how prices get set. but how much does psychology play in the price that we pay for our shopping? well, my next guest has literally written the book on this. it's called the invisible game the secrets and the science of winning minds and winning deals. kai—markus mueller, a real pleasure having you on this show. what are some of the tips and tricks that retailers use? well, there i...